page wiring help - 2nd failure!

[fourmations]

hi all

I have a few questions that might get me past
my problems on the page wiring,
sorry some of these are pretty stupid
but you gotta learn sometime!

i am trying arties, after making a mess of the SD one
(not SD's diagrams fault, i made a mess of it)

heres a diagram of arties, with my trivial questions marked!

1: I dont get this!, i have a switchcraft style switch
where the two centre lugs touch each other,
do i seperate the lugs?, i sent one wire down off the joined lugs
and then branched off it three ways, two for the neck tone DPDT lugs
and one for the jack, is this the right way?

2: easy one, does this simply denote a branched off wire?
so on this area i did a wire off the lug, then branched off to the
dpdt lug and left a long one out for grounding

3: any tips for these triple joints? do you guys use a single wire
and strip some insulation in the middle and join another wire?

4: same again, any tips for these tiny-reach criss-cross wires?
i ended up using a tiny piece of bare single core for one "criss-cross"
and then had to "bridge" over that with a tiny piece of insulated wire

5: another beginners question, where does this ground to or does it matter
i was going to go up to the ground on the back of the switch
(as thats where the stock wiring grounded to)

am i right saying that any ground can be put to the switch or
the casing of any pot


many thanks all

rgds

4

 

[Artie]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

1: I dont get this!, i have a switchcraft style switch
where the two centre lugs touch each other,
do i seperate the lugs?

Yes. For the JP wiring to work properly, they must be separate circuits.

I sent one wire down off the joined lugs
and then branched off it three ways, two for the neck tone DPDT lugs
and one for the jack, is this the right way?

Yes and no. You have the basic concept correct, but that one leg must go to the middle of the neck tone pot switch and the other must go to the bottom of the neck tone pot and the output jack. They must be kept as separate wires or it won't work correctly.

2: easy one, does this simply denote a branched off wire?
so on this area i did a wire off the lug, then branched off to the
dpdt lug and left a long one out for grounding.

Yes, exactly. Those little black dots simply refer to junctions in schematics. There's nothing wrong with running two separate wires to ground. In fact, thats the normal way to do it. Those junctions are used to keep the diagram from being too cluttered.

3: any tips for these triple joints? do you guys use a single wire
and strip some insulation in the middle and join another wire?

I always prefer to use a "landing" spot. Generally, there's plenty of room on the pot lug for 3 or 4 connections. Prep the pot by adding the jumper and cap, and a length of wire. Then complete the other ends when its all inside the guitar.

4: same again, any tips for these tiny-reach criss-cross wires?
i ended up using a tiny piece of bare single core for one "criss-cross"
and then had to "bridge" over that with a tiny piece of insulated wire.

Thats fine, although I'd go to the trouble of making both insulated. Helps to prevent accidents such as a bare ground wire touching somewhere it shouldn't. Not a big deal though if it works for you.

5: another beginners question, where does this ground to or does it matter
i was going to go up to the ground on the back of the switch
(as thats where the stock wiring grounded to)

Thats the "main" ground that all other grounds should connect to. Remember, in a guitar, the output jack sleeve is your only true ground. Everything else is just a connection to that point.

am i right saying that any ground can be put to the switch or
the casing of any pot

See above. Everything needs to end up at the output jack sleeve. Its ok to run all your grounds to whatever point is convenient, and then run wire to the output jack. I've never seen that be a problem within the short distances of a guitar cavity.

many thanks all

rgds

You're welcome. Good luck and don't hesitate to ask if anything else comes up.

Artie

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

hi artie (and all)

thanks for the advice - much appreciated!

couple of points...

is the "landing spot" just a reasonable dob of solder to take the three?

regarding the ground on the switch - do you have to got back to that
or can it be left blank once you ground to the output jack
(as you do in the diagram)

again many thanks! and many thanks for your diagram
I ended up doing everything backwards on the DPDT's
when i tried the SD version off the site, as i misinterpreted it

the diagramatic nature of your one is a great for newbs
as it take out a lot of the uncertainty

i will try the adjustments later and report back

my initial attempt was a big failure
with anticipation, i plugged the guitar in...
and it made no noise whatsoever!! agh, i was hoping for at least a partial success so i could track back, but there was nothing!!
(at least my first attempt made horrible bad ground noises but you could hear something happening with the push pulls!)

regards

4

 

[Artie]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

is the "landing spot" just a reasonable dob of solder to take the three?

Kind of . . . I prep and "tin" each of my wires, then do one "wrap" or "hook" on each end, and mechanically connect it to the pot lug. Should be easy to connect three wires there as long as you don't use too large of wire. Once they're all on there, do one solder connection. Try not to do a "blob" per se, but get a smooth flow into the joint.

regarding the ground on the switch - do you have to got back to that
or can it be left blank once you ground to the output jack
(as you do in the diagram)

I'm not exactly sure I know what you're asking here, but it can be important to ground the switch frame. I didn't do one one time and the switch buzzed badly when I touched it. Even though it had a plastic handle.

again many thanks! and many thanks for your diagram
I ended up doing everything backwards on the DPDT's
when i tried the SD version off the site, as i misinterpreted it

No prob man. You'ld be amazed at how many times I screw up the simplest connects, because I get in a hurry or am careless. I try to be a little more careful when installing guidance systems into Peacekeeper missles. Cool thing is, if I screwed up . . . who'll ever know?

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

hi artie and all,

i have failed again!!

the only response im getting
is when i touch the threaded metal area on the switch,
i'm getting a loud buzzing! the jack buzzes too but thats to be expected

i will check my work again, but this sound like
something obvious (and probably basic!)

can anyone shed any light on this?

forever in your debt!

rgds

4

 

[Artie]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

Its very easy to get hot and ground on the output jack reversed. Check that.

Also, since you have a bare ground wire and many exposed "hot" points inside a guitar, make sure none of them are shorting out when you put the cover/pickguard back on.

But I'd bet money on the first suggestion.

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

thanks for the tip artie

i switched a couple of things around and got somewhere,
but its still a real mess to be honest

my bridge tone push pull, kills the sound!
the volume does nothing!
the neck pup is doing odd things too

im not sure where to go,
i jumped in with two feet, its my first wiring project
apart from switching out pups on simple two-wire connections

i will either have another fresh try tommorrow or
I may try something a bit easier, like one push-pull
so i can improve my understanding and technique a little,

i need some success! i've spent ten hours trying this JP wiring!
it's starting to beat me!

let see what tommorow brings, on my quest to re-wire my epi LP!

(i have a 335 copy and i was going to try that first,
that would have been hilarious!)

thanks again, i'm learning

4,

 

[chuso007]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

Nice thread!

One of these days (I just can't find the time) I'll start the same wiring on a 335, no experience... Gotta say I'm a bit more scared now than before

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

Nice thread!

One of these days (I just can't find the time) I'll start the same wiring on a 335, no experience... Gotta say I'm a bit more scared now than before

go for it, just because I'm useless doesn't mean you will be ;-)

the trick with the 335 shape is that everything is done through
the f-holes

best of luck, let us know how you get on

rgds

4

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

hi artie

i have decided to go with something a little more strightforward
to hone my lacking skills!!

whats the most useful push-pull if i was to just try one
I assume its the coil splitting,

is it possible to split both off one push-pull
i have seen it somewhere i think (perhaps deaf eddies site)

edit: found it, heres a link (i did not want to post the diagram
without the guys permission)

does this diagram look okay to you

http://www.deaf-eddie.net/drawings/coil-shunt.jpg

rgds

 

[Artie]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

Yeah, I'd say splitting was the most useful sound. Seymour has a diagram also:

2h_1v_1t_3w_1pp

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

artie

i am having another quick look over my JP attempt
before i de-solder it to try something easier

on your page wiring do you ground all bare pup wires
to a volume pot or does it matter where they go to

thanks

rgds

4

 

[Artie]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

I, personally, ground all my wires to the sleeve lug of the output jack. Thats the only true ground on a guitar. Sometimes, I'll then run a wire to the back of pots, but usually only if there's already a blob of solder there. I never do it to new pots.

But thats just me.

Btw: Can I interest you in an Esquire?

 

[fourmations]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure! - Success!

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure! - Success!

yeah, i did it!

the buckers i bought for my project
have four wire conductor to the codes of SD

Black is live on SD, and green is ground
but the pups I bought are the other way around!

I spent 12 hours (over 3 attempts) trying to wire the Page style!

I know that a more experienced guitar-tech would probably work this out pretty quickly, but for a beginner it was a nightmare!

and yeah I know, artie mentioned that mixing up the ground and live
is a common mistake and that i should check that, but I just kept
checking that my colours were right to the diagram, Doh!

anyway, i got there in the end (and learned a lot)
Much kudos to artie and all here for their help

I have only had a half hour on it since i did it
but the combos are very intersting,

I had a look at the tone chart that is in the thread
in the Vault but my guitar seems to do a couple of things
that i was not expecting,

I will report back on this tommorrow when i get a chance to sit down
and experiment a bit more, but i'm sure from memory that the neck volume switch changes the sound when on the bridge pickup, which according to the
tone chart is supposed to have no effect at all

rgds and thanks again

4

 

[chuso007]

Re: page wiring help - 2nd failure!

I haven't started my wiring yet (and I'm afraid I won't soon, my job sucks...). Anyway, checking the diagrams I see that each cap is soldered to both the vol and tone pots. Is that correct? I've always seen them soldered only to the tone pot... If so, how'd you do it?, pots are too far away in a 335...