Partial Neck Shims

['59]

What's the verdict on partial neck shims?

I see these nerds on the internet talking about "ski slopes" if you use a business card shim or similar, but I know a thing or two about wood, and I don't think too much of it.

I mean I've gotten guitars from factories with shims, plus Fender has their micro-tilt.

Have any of yall ever seen one of these ski slopes?

 

[GuitarDoc]

"Ski slopes"? Don't know what you're talking about. Got some pics?

 

[Top-L]

Bolt on necks can develop a ski slope profile (a jump at the end of the neck), even without a shim. I dont remember the exact reason, but there is a technical reason it happens. I'm not sure if a partial shim will accelerate it or not.

I'm sad to say that all of my bolt on necks in the 20+ age range have all developed this to varying degrees. If the frets are jumbos its not a big deal because a level will solve it.

My question, why use a partial shim? Why not just cut a shim in the shape of the neck pocket? In a square pocket you could probably use 3x5" cards stacks and cut to shape. Ive done this on one of mine.

If the guitar needs *that* much extra bridge height, then chances are the neck has a ton of relief and the guitar might benefit from a planing and refret. Or hopefully just a truss rod adjustment.

 

[Clint 55]

Do guitar setups seriously ever run out of room on the low side for the saddles or bridge? Where you'd have to raise the neck? Usually the saddles are high. Don't use a shim, just learn how to set up your dang guitar including getting the truss rod right. And work your frets. If you actually have to use a shim where the saddles are bottomed out, which I doubt, use a wooden shim, not paper or some other shoddy material that will screw up the conduction.

 

['59]

Do guitar setups ever seriously ever run out of room on the low side for the saddles or bridge? Where you'd have to raise the neck? Usually the saddles are high. Don't use a shim, just learn how to set up your dang guitar including getting the truss rod right. And work your frets. If you actually have to use a shim where the saddles are bottomed out, which I doubt, use a wooden shim, not paper or some other shoddy material that will screw up the conduction.

All the factory shims I've seen are little pieces of card stock. However, it didn't mess up the conduction in the slightest. Why would it?

The only time I've ever installed a shim was a full pocket shim at about 4⁰ (what Les Paul's have) I made out of a piece of scrap wood so I could put a Les Paul style bridge on my Tele. And I only did that because I was too afraid to recess the bridge

 

[Chris Pile]

Fender used sanding screen cut into little strips for years....

 

[Clint 55]

All the factory shims I've seen are little pieces of card stock. However, it didn't mess up the conduction in the slightest. Why would it?

That's a really dumb thing to do to one's guitar, especially since it's unnecessary. Electric guitars sound best when their acoustic integrity is optimized. Sticking paper in a key point corrupts that. If you don't believe me, stick a paper shim in the neck, under the nut, and have the strings sitting in nut slots 1cm deep and tell me the guitar sounds good.

 

[Chris Pile]

Fender also used red paper shims stamped in the shape of the heel. You know... paper made of WOOD?

 

[Clint 55]

Imo it's really stupid because you don't need the height, you can just get the angle right if you know how to do a basic set up, and I think it sounds worse.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Yeah. I think I have to agree with Clint on this one.

 

[jimilee]

Oh yeah, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard a guitar and could hear that shim in the neck……


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[Clint 55]

Or what gauge and brand strings they use, or what value cap they use, or what brand pickup they use, or round not jagged fret ends. You don't have your guitar not jacked up for other people, it's for the player.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I think in the 60s & 70s shims were often used simply to keep the saddles high.
The adjustment screws stick up and bite into your hand when the saddles are low.
Shorter adjustment screws weren't easily had before the internet.
Shimming was easier and a lot quicker than filing the screws down.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

I'm a big believer in solid contact giving better sustain and liveliness.
The old loosen-and-retighten-the-neck-screws trick has made a world of difference for me in certain guitars.

But as for using heavy paper as a partial shim, I think when compressed tightly enough paper behaves like wood.
I've never compared them in the same guitar so I can't speak from experience.
Still, the liveliest, best-sustaining Strat I've ever owned is my '63 - with a partial shim made from two layers of card stock.

Maybe someday I'll try replacing replacing it in favor of a wood one as an experiment, but the paper one has served well for decades.
It already looked old when I first bought the guitar in '82.

 

[Mincer]

I remember I used a shim that was the size of the neck pocket, made of wood, and went from literally 0 to about .5mm on an 80s Squier and it improved a lot. Also I have no idea how many Fenders that I've repaired and had all kinds of things in the neck pocket to act as shims.

 

[Aceman]

What's the verdict on partial neck shims?

I see these nerds on the internet talking about "ski slopes" if you use a business card shim or similar, but I know a thing or two about wood, and I don't think too much of it.

I mean I've gotten guitars from factories with shims, plus Fender has their micro-tilt.

Have any of yall ever seen one of these ski slopes?

I made one one time.

A layer of fine screen mesh for grip,
then a piece of wood I carefully sanded to be a very slight ramp.

The point being, more wood to wood = better vibration transmission.

Meh, PITA for no real benefit, or not enough. Get the angle any way you can.

 

[Chistopher]

Wood is definitely better if for no reason other than designing a full pocket shim at a custom degree angle is a good skill to have. If you don't care to learn that skill, I'd say at least a piece of card stock the length of the width of the pocket about an inch wide should do.

Also, Clint, if he has a TOM on a Tele, chances are an angle to the neck is in order seeing as most TOMS sit higher off the body than most tele bridges.

 

[AlexR]

Strats for sure possess enough variables in potential setup that a tilt is a godsend. No amount of 'setup' will compensate for the possible variances of trem being decked or floating, then a possibly variably large amount of plastic finish on the neck shaft, various different heights of frets, different neck radii and then playing preference thrown in too. And this is all from a body made with 1 depth of neck pocket rout.