Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

[waltschwarzkopf]

Hi guys,

A while ago, I bought an (almost new) RG321MH (http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/RG321MH) HH configuration, solid mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, 25.5in scale and 24 frets; it looks great, it plays great and it sounds great. The reasons that I bought this guitar were because a needed a guitar with 24 frets and a fixed bridge (I had an old Rocket Special HSS with 21 frets and 6-point tremolo). Another reason to buy it was in order to have a guitar to play while I was modifying one of the two. I have been experimenting with wiring and pickups on the old Rocket and now I feel confident to open the Ibanez up. The guitar feels great and very solid; comfortable neck, thick and slick, good sustain and mass, yet not too heavy. So no mods on the body or even considering buying another guitar instead. The pickups sound ok clean but get quite muddy under gain, so the difference between bridge and neck are not as noticeable as I would like. Therefore, I want to upgrade the pickups and while at it also the wiring.

These are the ideas I have in mind and where I need your advice:

1. New pickups:

Here is where I need you the most. The pickups sound muddy at mid-high gain and there is not much difference between all positions. I do not know if this is because they are ceramic magnets instead of AlNiCo or if because they are stock (RG Standard Series – Inf3 & Inf4) pickups; I thinks is because of the latter. First thing I did is check out the pickups on the current HH Ibanez models and found the following:

• Bare Knuckle Aftermath (neck & bridge) i.e. FR6UCS
• DiMarzio Air Norton (neck) & The Tone Zone (bridge) i.e RG652FX
• EMG 60 (neck) & 81 (bridge) i.e. RGIT20FE
• DiMarzio Fusion Edge (neck & bridge) i.e. RGAIX6FM

I looked on the Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio sites and found the Alpha Omega set, the Steve Morse neck & bridge pickups, Steve Vai Evolution and Gravity Storm sets and John Petrucci Liquifire and Crunch lab pickups. I would not go for the Bare Knuckle, as they are insanely expensive. I like Tonerider as they are great bang for buck, but I think their humbuckers are more focused on LP/SG style guitars. There is also Irongear and Viking as “affordable” options but I have no idea if they are good. I am not very keen on active pickups, I tried a Jackson Soloist HH 24 frets and felt that all the dynamic of playing and picking disappear with the active pickups. I do not need the pickups to be too hot, I want them to be even with one another; in fact, I would prefer medium-vintage output pickups so I can crank the amp more. Also for playing hard rock and progressive (nothing too heavy), would it be better to have AlNiCo or ceramic magnets? Maybe an AlNiCo 2 on the neck and AlNiCo 5 on the bridge? What do you think?

2. Rewire pickups

Since I have to solder the new pickups anyway, I might as well rewire the switch to give it more versatility. Right now, the stock switching goes as follows:

1. Neck humbucker in series
2. Neck humbucker in parallel
3. Both humbuckers in parallel
4. Inner coils in parallel
5. Bridge humbucker in series

I don’t really like the sound of two humbucker together, as four coils at the same time gives a lot of sound, which is neither bridge nor neck; again this could be the current pickups, on the Rocket that I rewire I DO notice a difference, but that has AlNiCo magnets. I want to keep positions 1 & 5 as they are, as I use these to solo and like to have higher output than on the other positions. I am thinking about filling the remaining positions with the following options.

• Pos. 2 & 4 with humbuckers in parallel to reduce output, hopefully volume and gain. I will use this for riffs or chord where I need lower output than positions 1 & 5
• Pos. 2 & 4 with only one coil (inner or outer?) to reduce output, hopefully volume and gain. Same use as above.
• Pos. 3 with both inner coils. Ideally, I would get the lowest volume and gain of all positions; I will use this for strumming and chords.
• Pos. 3 with both humbucker in parallel, as it now and hopefully with the new “better” pickups the sound will improve. Same use as above.

The Ibanez FR6UCS already has a similar wiring:

1. Neck humbucker in series
2. Neck inner coil
3. Both inner coils
4. Bridge inner coil
5. Bridge humbucker in series

However, I cannot find the schematics nor sound samples of all positions. I would appreciate your input on the different switch positions that I have in mind as well as a wiring diagram for the FR6UCS (I’ll keep looking and also try to figure it out myself) and if I need a normal 5-pos switch or a Super/Mega switch. What is your advice?

3. Change capacitor and add “treble bleed”?

This last one is optional, right now, I feel the controls work fine although at high volume, the tone does not do much, but that happens to every guitar. I thought that if I am putting in new pickups I might need to change the capacitor of the tone and/or add a “treble bleed” to the volume to prevent loss of highs. I put a Kinman style on my Rocket (capacitor + resistor in series) and it’s ok, the Seymour Duncan or Fender style didn’t work well. However, on some Ibanez the bleed is just a capacitor. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot for reading and for your advice,

Cheers,
Walter

P.S. If you live in Zürich and want to get together and jam, send me a PM.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

1. Neck humbucker in series
2. Neck inner coil
3. Both inner coils
4. Bridge inner coil
5. Bridge humbucker in series

You could get 2-4 to sound really good with partial splits, so you don't have a big drop in volume or fullness.

About the treble bleeds: they are helpful for a rock guitar where you want to maintain your highs. A small cap is all you need. Around 100 or 200pf, you maintain bass presence as you turn down, and 300 to 400pf it stays bright while turning down.

 

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

1. Neck humbucker in series
2. Neck inner coil
3. Both inner coils
4. Bridge inner coil
5. Bridge humbucker in series

If you want that wiring, you won't be able to use active pickups (such as the EMG's), because as far as I know, you can't split those.

Also keep in mind that your current 5-way switch functions different from a "normal" 5-way switch, Ibanez puts those special ones in to get to the wiring you currently have. You will most likely have to replace your current 5-way lever to get to the wiring you want with the splitting.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

You could get 2-4 to sound really good with partial splits, so you don't have a big drop in volume or fullness.

About the treble bleeds: they are helpful for a rock guitar where you want to maintain your highs. A small cap is all you need. Around 100 or 200pf, you maintain bass presence as you turn down, and 300 to 400pf it stays bright while turning down.

What do you mean by partial splits? Do you mean just using one of the coils? If so, that is what I intend to do.

If you want that wiring, you won't be able to use active pickups (such as the EMG's), because as far as I know, you can't split those.

Also keep in mind that your current 5-way switch functions different from a "normal" 5-way switch, Ibanez puts those special ones in to get to the wiring you currently have. You will most likely have to replace your current 5-way lever to get to the wiring you want with the splitting.

I know, I'm not considering active pickups anymore, so no problem splitting. You're right about the switch, I found the wiring diagram of my guitar, but I can't make out how the switch works. Do you have any idea of how a non-standard 5-way Ibanez switch works?

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

Partial splits are where you use a resistor, such as 4k7, after the red and white then to ground to cut the coil so it leaves some of the cut coil active and makes a better split sound that isn't terribly quieter or thinner than the full series sound

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

The Ibanez guitar with hardtail and mahogany body will be warm sounding. Probably Alnico 2 is not what you want.

I would suggest to stay with alnico 5 pickups for that particular guitar. Maybe a Sentient neck, and TB-14 custom 5 in the bridge, but my suggestion may be worthless as it will really depend on the tone you like.

Ceramic will be better if you are focussed on metal styles.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

I have something similar to that and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Distortion set. Though right now, mine has a Distortion neck with an A4, paired with an Alternative 8 in the bridge. Only a three way switch, but the pickups are mounted in Triple Shot rings.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

The Ibanez guitar with hardtail and mahogany body will be warm sounding. Probably Alnico 2 is not what you want.

I would suggest to stay with alnico 5 pickups for that particular guitar. Maybe a Sentient neck, and TB-14 custom 5 in the bridge, but my suggestion may be worthless as it will really depend on the tone you like.

Ceramic will be better if you are focussed on metal styles.

I'm not focused on metal, I try to play some Petrucci or Dream Theater, but that's like 1% of the time, also because it's too hard! :disappoin

I like the neck to have a thick bassy sound, like november rain's 1st and 2nd solos or Gary Moore. And the bridge has to be trebbly but without over powering the neck, like Highway star or smoke on the water riffs/chords.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

It seems you are a fan of classic rock. That's great. I don't know about the latest Petrucci or Vai pickups. I have no first hand knowledge about them, but I guess they are going to be a bit too thin and modern sounding for your needs.

Probably you are looking for something that is very versatile, more PAF like and covers a lot of styles. So in that case, I stand by my suggestion of Custom 5 in the bridge. Possibly Sentient neck, but you should get some advice from others. Custom 5 can be a bright tone, but hopefully not too bright to work well in your mahogany RG321 guitar.

For wiring changes, I don't see anything wrong with the stock wiring in your guitar. Depending on the pickups the Position 3 can work well. With the Custom 5 in the bridge it will add some brightness so the Position 3 won't be as muddy.
Its often best to make one change at a time, so you can evaluate the difference between new and old configuration. Its very hard to get wiring changes right the first time because you generally don't know what its going to sound like until you try it. If you change pickups at the same time it will be even harder to predict what you will like. I suggest to keep your stock wiring and try it with the new pickups.

For the treble bleed, I think its a good idea. The trouble is that most treble bleed circuits tend to be heavy-handed designs with large component values and make the guitar excessively bright, without any subtlety whatsoever. I suggest to try the pickups without any treble bleed first. Maybe later try a treble bleed circuit that is recommended in a similar setup, or otherwise be prepared to experiment a bit with different size capacitor and resistor combinations. I think your guitar has a back-routed control cavity, so hopefully its not too hard to swap different treble bleed circuits until you find the one that suits.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

Hi guys,

I've been think that before changing the pickups I could rewire them to see if the tone changes; like you said, make one mod at the time.

Since reducing pickup output / volume / gain with just the switch can be quite tricky and not the best solution I was thinking of the following:

Replace the 5-way switch with a standard "tele" 3-way blade for neck-both-bridge (or toggle, but it would require drilling)
Replace the 1-tone & 1-vol pots with concentric pots to get 2-tones & 2-vols (adding 2 additional pots would be best but would also require drilling)

This way if I want one pickup louder or the other treblier I can adjust that independently instead of going crazy with switches and coil spliting.

What do you think?

If I like the flexibility that I get but still the tone doesn't do it I can put som Duncans in, like JB, 59 or Custom 5; something in the line of AlNiCo 2 on the neck and AlNiCo 5 on the bridge.

 

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

If you want independent tone and volume controls for each pickup, two concentric pots are the way to go in my opinion. Personally I would not replace the 5-way switch with a 3-way switch, it'll give you fewer options, and I have to admit that I do like the Ibanez 5-way wiring, offering parallel neck and inner coil split options.
As for the tone being muddy under gain, it's probably the pickups, it's a complaint heard a lot about most Ibanez stock pickups. You can see how far you get with adding a tone and volume control by using concentric pots, but my guess is that for you to be completely satisfied with the tone, you'll need better pickups in the end.

 

[Juanhanglo]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

congrats on the rg321. I have an rg520qs which is basically the same guitar with a trem. love that guitar! it currently has a norton/air norton combo in it.

I have 2 Ibanez with that switching. it is my favorite by far. first is a hardtail basswood rg921. I swapped the ibz humbuckers with a pair of full shreds. I have grown apart from these lately and will be changing them in the future. I have a set of carvin h22s that will go in there.

the second on is an rg3xxv basswood with a maple neck. this guy came with an air norton s/dactivator combo. this combo with the parallel and combined split positions makes for a very versatile sound. I added a treble bleed recently, and will most likely change the pots for a smoother taper during roll off.
air norton s (strat sized humbucker), just like the full sized norton is a great sounding neck pickup. the treble bleed works well with these. turning the volume down adds in some treble to brighten things up a bit. the parallel coil sound is very single coil like too.

the dactivator was the huge surprise for me. being a 470 MV ceramic scorcher, I was expecting to replace it with a tone zone or some other jack of all trades pickup. split, it yields a 5.7k single coil (as does the air norton) which gives a very stratty position 2 (inner coils parallel). the treble bleed also takes the thickness away, which is easily tamable by lowering the tone, to yield pretty decent cleaner sounds. running it through a tube screamer into a clean amp gives great classic rock tones, surprisingly.

I found all positions useable on a two humbucker guitar for the first time. I gotta say that it is my most versatile guitar. in fact, I may use the same pickup combo in my rg921.

if I were you, I would swap pickups first and add a treble bleed. From there, see if there are any of the switch positions don't sound right. you can always wire up a super switch to do anything you want.

 

[waltschwarzkopf]

Re: Pickup and wiring upgrades for Ibanez RG321MH

Hi guys,

I was able to do an incredibly simple mod and got almost what I wanted. Based on the wiring diagram for the complicated Ibanez 5-way switch, by I removing the jumper from position pole B, it eliminates the Neck inner coil from positions 2 & 4, hence leaving a single coil neck on position 5 and single coil bridge on position 2. See attached images to see what I mean.

I also installed a 330pF capacitor in the volume knob as a treble bleed, no resistor in parallel nor in series with the cap. I chose the value and setup based on other Ibanez that come standard with a treble bleed for 1-vol 1-tone guitars.

I think she sounds great, and now I'm gonna experiment with the different sounds that I can get before making further changes.

Thanks a lot!