Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

[zimbodel]

Long ago around 1982, I bought an old 1963 L-series strat. The neck and body is 1963 The entire pickguard has been replaced with a 69 pickguard and pickups at some stage (guess why). The middle pickup dates to 1969 greyback and the pickguard is 3-ply with white on top and tortoise-shell on the bottom, which is correct for the 69 era.
To make a long story short, in due course during 1978-82's the neck and bridge pickups have been replaced with what seems to be Seymour Duncan. I am trying to ID these two pickups.

1) What I want to know is what single coil strat pickup SD made between 79-83.
2) The one which I am sure of is a SD has a small sticker with roundish corners with 1B on it.

The neck pickup looks to be too tall to be a 63 pickup as a notmal low-profile pickup cover does not cover it, so it must be either Dimarzio or Duncan.
3) Or were there any taller pickups made by SD in the era 78-83 ?
I will post photos later, but want to know if someone knows what the "1B" pickup is that was made between 1978-83

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Welcome to the forum.

The obvious candidate replacement pickup is the SSL-1 Vintage for Stratocaster.

 

[Scott Olson]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Yeah, sounds almost certainly like an old SSL-1, which was the first pickup Seymour was winding as Seymour Duncan Research.

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Resistance is 7.01k. The stagger is vintage with a twist: From Low E poles rise up to G, then B is the lowest pole and the High E is raises just lower than the low E. This pickup you suggest to be SSL-1 fits into a standard (non-tall) pickup cover. Does this sound right?
Looking at the label closer it might say "1R" instead of "1B"

Are you sure this is the only SD made during this period ?

The other mystery neck pickup is a whole 3mm taller and needs a tall pickup cover (like modern dimarzios). It has no vintage stagger, or stagger at all and is flat poled even and flush with with the top flatwork. Any idea what that ca n be for a replacement pickup before 83. The guy I bought it from was a Knopfler freak, so it could be an FS-1, but it certainly isn't, as the resistance is also 7k and the FS-1's were 14k as I can remember. Any ideas ?

Here are photos of the two pickups.
"http://grossmann-venter.com/visitors/63strat/IphonePickupPhotos/"
The SD1 and SD2 photos are of what you think is the SSL-1.
The MP photos are of some mystery pickup which Dimarzio say is not their pickup, so it must be a Seymour Duncan or an unmarked TALL fender pickup needing a larger cover (never seen that in the 70's) Any Clue ?

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

The stickered pu is definitely an SSL1. The letter after the digit is the initial of the winder. The original cloth wire has been substituted though.

As for the other pu, not sure. At first I thought it was an older SSL3, which came with an uncovered, tape wrapped coil (thus, no need for a cover), but the resistance is too low for SSL3 spec. If this is a 4 conductor pu, then it's tappable, which accounts for the taller bobbin, so they could get more winds on.

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Ashurbanipal
Thank you for the info.
As for the cloth being replaced on the SSL-1, dont think so. I bought this 62 L Series Strat in about 1981-83. I honestly never played this guitar until now as I really disliked the combination of pickups and hated the 1962 body and always played Gibson 99% of the time anyway. I also have other strats I prefer.
So it will be strange if the cloth was changed before it was sold as the pickup would have been brand new.

As for the other pickup, I am truly baffled. Dimarzio says it is not theirs, it is not a Seymour Duncan as people mention here, then all it can be is some Fender pickup as it has flat poles. But, it has no codes on the back, has flatwork which is black and not gray and is 3mm taller than a standard 70's strat bobbin pickup, so it is probably not 70's and has no codes on the back. It cannot be 60's because there were no flat poled pickups in the 60's.

It is either a Dimarzio or a Duncan. Cannot be anything else.
Were there any tall Duncans made around after the SSL-1 ?
It might be that the sticker was removed from a flat poled tall Duncan, but which Duncan was made after the SSL-1 and did it have flat poles?
or does anyone know if there were any flat pole tall Dimarzios made around 1983 ?

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

The SSL1 was among the first pups that Seymour made and sold after forming his company, and there was a degree of historical correctness involved, hence the cloth wire. I have a pair of SSL2s in a guitar from the same period which have cloth wire. To my knowledge, Seymour never used blue wire.

Moreover, at the wire terminals in the eyelets, there is evidence of resoldering - lumpy and amber residue, hence my deduction; factory solder joints are smooth and residue free. It's possible that the original wires were too short (or were shortened in the process of whatever modding took place before your custodianship of the instrument), so completely new ones were substituted.

My instinct still thinks that the tall pu could be a Duncan, perhaps SSL3 - an overwound, flat pole single coil suggested as a bridge position - with non-stock wire.

This is an older SSL3: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seymour-Dun...048?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3f273ab728.

Newer ones have wire terminals at the sides of the pu.

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Ashurbanipal
Never heard of those pickups, thanks a lot for the info. Unfortunately these never had a closed cover as the base flatwork is composite and not plastic, so it cannot be that.

Funkfingers
The wires obviously have been changed as it was transpalnted from another strat the guy had back then and he fiddled endlessly with the pickups and di more harm than good, As I mentioned he was a Knopfler nut. I thought you were talking about the coil wrap, which is original, butthe wires sure were changed. As you can see from the photos the wires on the 1969 Grayback has been changed too. The photo of the SSL3 is close what my pickup looks like, I edited this reply a lot because I misinterpreted something. It now REALLY looks like exactly the SSL-3 where in my case the sticker must have been removed or fell off. So I think you nailed it!
Do you know when the SSL-3 was first sold ? That would help to put a fix on it.

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

I just measured very accurately with a vernier as I am jumping to conclusions and will try to be more accurate:

The SSL-1 pickup and the mystery pickup under discussion has
1) Exactly the same color flatwork at the bottom.
2) Exactly the same dimensions of the flatwork and definitely the same source.
3) The magnets are exactly the same diameter.
4) The bottom flatwork both has the exact hole in the center on both pickups.
5) The poles on both pickups has exactly the same center pin machining markings.
In fact, comparing the bottom flatwork on both leaves me with the conclusion that they are indistinguishable.
6) Both has 7k resistance
7) The mystery coil fits perfectly in a Dimarzio TALL pickup cover. The coil and top flatwork is standard strat that fits in a tall pickup cover, but it does not fit in a vintage pickup cover or an SSL-1 pickup cover.


The only difference is the flat poles flush with top flatwork and the height on the mystery pickup is 3.5mm higher than the SSL-1
This cannot be a hot version of the SSL-1 as it has more wire, therefore it must have been wound with thicker wire.

Does anyone know how tall a circa 83 SSL-3 would be between the two flatworks top and bottom?

I appreciate the unselfish, help as I know this is becoming a bit long-winded.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Yes, the similarity in the flatwork also led me to thinking it's a Duncan. The product description of the SSL3 on the site ('raised flat Alnico 5 pole pieces are taller for a stronger and deeper magnetic field') suggest that it's somewhat taller than a regular single coil.

However, it should be about 16k in resistance... Unless it was a tapped version and someone modified it so it would work as a tap? Perhaps they found it too powerful? Don't know, just guessing.

Not sure about exactly when the SSL3 was introduced, but I'm certain it was early in the game (the number of the pu is a clue ). The SSL2 is the same as SSL1 but with flat poles, so the SSL3 may have been introduced as a hotter bridge alternative around the same time, for those who found the bridge SSL1/2 too mild. You could email SD directly and they'll tell you.

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Ashurbanipal

You mention that the SSL2 had flat poles, From a list of SD pickups I have, it says it is a bar magnet. That is the why I skipped the SSL2. If the SSL2 in fact was flat poled and not bar, do you have any information on the old circa 1982 versions as that would most definately be around 7k else there would have been no need for SSL3. I know I can google it, but the problem is there is very little info about the early SD pickups and they probably changed considerably in visual appearance later on.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Oh no, the SSL2 is just a flat pole version of the SSL1, everything else is the same (i.e. they weren't taller or anything). Wound to about 6-6.4k, interpretation of a 50s Strat pu.

To that end, they wouldn't be bar magnet - by this, I assume you mean a pu with ferrous poles and a magnet underneath powering them. This arrangement was used on cheaper import guitars with single coils.

As you say, it's difficult to find info. Here are some scans of old catalogues but they're frustratingly too low resolution: http://www.colin.org/Copywriting/SeymourDuncan/SeymourDuncanPickups.html. That chart would be useful to see!

By 1985, Seymour was up to '7' or thereabouts in the numbers of the single coils, so the introduction of the SSL2 and 3 would've been in the early 80s sometime. The vintage style pups stayed the same for the most part.

It would be nice if this website had some of these stats on hand so people could date/determine their old pups. There could've been other pups with different number and letter codes in the early says but, I have no idea about them (provided they existed).

 

[zimbodel]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Thanks for all the information and links. Ihave an old vendors list, which lists SSL-2 as a bar magnet. this is obviously completely wrong.
I would really like to see the following page from the link you quoted.
That should tell me if the mystery pickup was rewound or if it is something different or a completely different make.
I doubt that it is anything else than a SD as the flatwork is clearly the same source.

"http://www.colin.org/Copywriting/SeymourDuncan/ThirdOpen.html"

Anyway, I guess there is not much more blood we can draw out of a stone with the little data we have.
Thanks all.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Pickup ID SD Single Coil circa 1978-83

Pics!!!