Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

[glepko]

I'm resurrecting a LP Classic to use primarily with modelling equipment live and software recording. I tend toward Mesa MKIV crunch tones with mid gain. Vox and HiWatt models for that hint of drive clean on the bridge. And some type of Fender model for neck cleans, or an AC15 grind model for boxy edge of breakup tones. It's and odd mix of Dave Grohl-ish modern Alt rock, Smashing Pumpkins, and 80's metal really (Marty Friedman/Maiden/Priest). My musical roll is rhythm with occasional fills and odd space filling passages. Moderate use of effects, and clean/low gain edge of breakup grind through mid to moderate gain.

This particular guitar has a LOT of room for pickup height adjustment, the neck angle wasn't set very perfectly at Gibson so the bridge and tailpiece are pretty flippin high off the body. {It's always going to be wearing .42-(sometimes .9/.11 E/B and sometimes .10/.12) Don't ask, I'm fickle on those 2 strings. It's worse on my particular Strat. The whole set is custom gauged.}

I've got the SH-5 at the bridge currently, it's okay with nice crunch, just a little thin and a bit too bright and snappy on top.

THe neck is wearing a Jazz -- which is a great pickup as well, just too much low mid and congested for me. A clear and articulate neck clean is important, as is balance from neck to bridge sounding like the same guitar only different - instead of two different guitars.

I am not wanting a LP to chase after Slash or Gary Moore tones. Or Texas Blues. I want a modern-ish sounding guitar with smooth full crunch on the bridge with a full tight bottom, plentiful mids, and smooth rolled top end. Topped with an articulate clear neck position. WOman tone not required.

I've rewired this thing 20 times (not really, but a lot). Various caps/schematics/pot values. Blah.

I don't like where the mid peak hits my ears with JB or AP2 and similar.

Well that's about as clear as a muddy LP neck pickup then, right?

After speaking with Scott @SD:
I've decided on a Full Shred neck, and still floundering on the bridge. Sorta like the Invader clips but want nickel covers on this one. Odd my selections may seem, I don't play in metal bands, or record in metal bands - primarily play mid gain and clean tones in modern alternative rock styling. He suggested maybe the Alt 8 would pair well in this scenario, and I'm not finding many clips other than all out metal, which it seems to get washed out of mixes. Custom 8 isn't ruled out I suppose.

 

[BRHGM]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

If a custom is too thin and a jazz is too middy, I think you are headed either toward a Dimarzio or an EMG solution. Most people find the custom chunky and the jazz bright and sterile. They are both not very vintage sounding but perfectly adaptable to most situations. I question whether you have the pickups adjust correctly to the strings. Remember, you can raise and lower the bass sides to compensate for the treble side being to bright or too middy. I also wonder if the truss rod is in need of adjustment. The neck angle can be adjusted by a luthier. Fix those before you go further.

 

[scorch]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

You sound like you like the same kind of tones as I. I gigged a Mesa Mk IV for seventeen years.

My LP has a DiMarzio 36th Anv. neck and an SD 59/Custom bridge w/ UOA5 in it. It sounds great and covers a lot of ground.

The bridge WILL crunch but its not overbearing. I'm having trouble with another guitar that I dropped a Custom-Custom with an A8. Very strong, the mids are too strident and I've lowered the thing lower than any bridge pickup I've ever had. I may try an UOA5 or A3 to try and calm it down.

But the 59/Custom is easily the best bridge pickup this LP has had in it. (It's on #6) The 36th Anv n is a sweet neck pickup. No boominess or harsh top end.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

I



I've got the SH-5 at the bridge currently, it's okay with nice crunch, just a little thin and a bit too bright and snappy on top.

The neck is wearing a Jazz -- which is a great pickup as well, just too much low mid and congested for me. A clear and articulate neck clean is important, as is balance from neck to bridge sounding like the same guitar only different - instead of two different guitars.


I've rewired this thing 20 times (not really, but a lot). Various caps/schematics/pot values. Blah.

So how'd you leave it the last time you rewired it? Did you do the 50's mod? That's simply attaching the tone capacitor to the middle terminal of the volume pot, which is the output of the volume control.

I've never thought of the SH-5 as being thin - but with 50's wiring it can sound that way.

If you're using 50's wiring on the SH-5, I'd change it to modern wiring. Simply move the tone cap to the input of the volume control - the #1 terminal. That should correct the "thin" quality you're hearing, fatten it up and remove some of the "bright and snappy" quality that you might be hearing from it. You're also hearing the sound of a ceramic magnet though. It's not as organic sounding, to me, as an alnico magnet.

On the other hand, the 50's mod might help the Jazz neck pickup and might make it clearer.

I couldn't care less about Gary Moore tone or Billy Gibbons tone either. I only want to hear "my" tone.

If it was my guitar I'd use all 500K pots.

I'd use modern wiring with the tone caps attached to the #1 terminal on both pots.

I'd use Sprague Orange Drop .02 or maybe .047 tone caps.

I'd use a PG neck pickup - it's my favorite Duncan neck pickup.

And I'd try the SH-5 with modern wiring and not 50's wiring. If it still doesn't work than I'd go for a humbucker with an alnico magnet and not ceramic.

The SH-5 with an alnico 2 magnet is the Custom Custom. With an alnico 5 magnet it's the Custom 5. But of those three I actually like the stock SH-5 best.

Sorry - can't really recommend a bridge pickup for you as I'm unclear of what you're after.

A set of PG's or Alnico II Pros or Seth Lovers is what has worked for me.

And the Seth Lovers come stock with the nickel covers you're after.

Or a PG neck and SH-5 bridge pickup - although I do hear that ceramic magnet in the SH-5 and sometimes the treble frequencies lack the more organic tone that I'd prefer to hear.

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

I don't mean to label the pickups as bad and wrong - they are actually both quite good in their own regards, and too different from one another for my application. Still within the 21 day window, I'll stick with SD and get it right rather than switch camps.

The tones I am getting in the SH-5 are (close enough for the girl I go with) available to me in a couple other guitars so the redundancy isn't needed. And I don't need this to be a covers everything versatile instrument, like chugga chugga pinch harmonic on the bridge and smooth blues and jazz from the neck. It would serve me well to be balanced and similar (not identical) from bridge to neck. What I want to hear from the bridge, compared to how the SH-5 is working for me, is a fuller sound (deeper) with an increased mid-range output (with a peak not similar to where the JB, 59, or AP2 sits), and a similar smooth high end, only at a lower frequency peak. It's not far off from that, and it's adjusted (height, pole pieces) to be as near what my ears want as I could create.

It is currently wired modern. Neck has tone circuit removed and I'm sure the de-mud would help, but expect swapping to the Full Shred to accomplish what I want to hear in the neck and be a better starting point for balancing 2 pickups in a LP.

Compared to the original Gibson ceramics, the SH-5 is softer, less output, and smoother to my ear. The Jazz neck is worlds better than the 496 for what I want from this guitar. I have those same pickups in a LP Studio lite and they work exceptionally well, FOR ME, in that guitar.

These little nuances are what drives me batty in studio production - at least when I'm working with and mixing live events there is no permanency to the sound so going back for a tweak here and a tweak there and a hey that could be better isn't so OCD inducing. The biggest challenge I have is in hearing things that cannot be communicated.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

The biggest challenge I have is in hearing things that cannot be communicated.

No kidding. Me too.

Can you communicate the taste of an orange to someone who's never tasted one?

Nope. And I can't either.

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

No kidding. Me too.

Can you communicate the taste of an orange to someone who's never tasted one?

Nope. And I can't either.

:bigthumb:

 

[chadd]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

I would lower the Jazz and raise the pole pieces on the plain strings, you should be able to get the tone you want without having to swap anything. At most, you should have to swap out the neck volume pot for a 500K. The Jazz is one of the least muddy pickups you are going to find. As for the bridge, the only thing I can think of would be a custom custom.

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

It's currently sunk into the mounting ring with pole pieces raised (and set for balanced output top to bottom) on a 500k pot. The low mid hump I hear is not leaving this pickup/position/guitar combination, no wizardry will remove or mask tones inherent to the interaction of all said components, ears and perception included.

 

[chadd]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

Damn, you may be looking at something custom to address that problem then.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

Yep, as I posted in your MLP thread, the jazz is a very clear pickup. It will be interesting to see if anything can remove a low mid hump.

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

Yeah I agree Alex, and appreciate your thoughts. Actually I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I'll know more next week, decided to swap for Full Shred neck and Alt8 Bridge expecting them to compliment one another well in this guitar. Will report results after test drive.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

You might be able to fine tune the de-mud mod (one of this forum's members Artie Too came up with it. Its a resistor and a cap in parallel soldered to the pickup ground wire (not the baseplate ground, the green wire in Duncans). Maybe with an alteration of the values you could make it filter the mids a bit, rather than the bass.

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

That would be an interesting project - replicating parametric EQ with inline filtering - adding a HPF would be icing on the cake. I would imagine having a significant challenge devising a circuit to notch a desired dB cut at a specific freq and Q? It wouldn't be hard to determine the values pretty easily when back around studio/live gear - I have a pretty good idea where I would start to massage this if putting it into a mix. A permanent onboard fix is desirable as opposed to post processing (duh, why would we ever change pickups)

 

[glepko]

Re: Pickup pairing into LP for MODELLING rigs

Picked up my swapped pickups from UPS this afternoon. . . . install tomorrow. (Full Shred neck/Alt8 Bridge) Will update with impressions over the weekend. With the neck position I will be experimenting a bit with wiring options (pot values, straight to jack, caps in line on the hot lead - if none of those do what I want I'll spin-a-split that puppy and forego a tone control)