Pickups for metal?

[alex1fly]

Metalheads - what do you all use for ridiculously massive chuggage and clarity with riffage?

Anyone else - how much do "metal" pickups assist with tone sculpting? What's the point beyond Being generally higher output?

I ask because I like playing this style, and have had fun for years palm muting and riffing on vintage style pickups into a hot amp. In fact my favorite metal type playing has come from my Strat and Tele. But as I build out my guitar family, I'm finding that one guitar doesn't quite have its own identity... And I've never had a dedicated metal guitar, so why not give it a shot and try a set of Full Shreds or two JBs or Sentiment/Pegasus or a Dimebucker?

My preferred metal is progressive metal (Darkwater thanks to the recent Off Topic thread, Coheed, 1990-2008 Dream Theater, Porcupine Tree, Mastodon), and some of the new djent stuff has cool tones too, but I'm interested to hear from anyone playing any style of metal and seeking that balance of brutality and beauty.

 

[dave74]

For me the choice would depend heavily (p.i.) on which guitar I was loading.

If the guitar already had a spongier low-end and buttery/warm highs then I'd get a Nazgul/Dimebucker/X2N,,,,,along those lines.

If the guitar leaned more towards the tight/bright/spanky/open side then I'd maybe go with an Invader or D'a-X,

JP was using the D-Sonic or Crunchlab maybe for the Systematic Chaos album, and those tones really worked well through the mesa marks.
I've heard that D-Sonics are close to the Duncan Distortion,,,,,but I can't say that's true or not.

 

[Demanic]

I used to think that high output burners were it. Now I think that the clearest tightest medium gain pickup is the way to go.

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[AdrianSD]

For me it's a combination of everything: guitar, pickup, pedals, amp, speaker/cab. I've found that, on the same guitar/pickup/pedals/amp combo, the speaker and cab (closed / open / combo) choice makes a massive difference. But to cut my answer short, given a generally tight overdrive (as clean boost) / amp / cab tone, I get some massive/brutal chugga/djent sounds with Black Winter, Custom, Custom8 and JB8, my current bridge pickups. On my EQ configuration I found DiMarzio TZ and SD too dark, so it's all Duncans for me in the bridge.

 

[AdrianSD]

I used to think that high output burners were it. Now I think that the clearest tightest medium gain pickup is the way to go.

Yeah, that's my "feeling" as well. For example, when playing on the Black Winter guitar I have to back off the volume on the OD pedal, or the gain on the amp slightly, while with the JB8 and the 2 Customs the palm muted riffs and single note runs stay tight with the common EQ & volume settings.
N.B. I'm a mids+bass+presence person, with the highs rolled back. Maybe I should reconsider my tone and give the TZ another chance?

 

[JamesPaul]

I am still using my Distortion or Custom, depending on which amp. But I am dying to get a set of Black Winters and try them out.

 

[dave74]

And make sure to not confuse dcr for output. In-general high dcr will make for a more compressed response.

For the clarity associated with progressive and djent styles I would be looking at high-output ceramics with modest dcr (like in the 10-14 range).

 

[Demanic]

Yeah, that's my "feeling" as well. For example, when playing on the Black Winter guitar I have to back off the volume on the OD pedal, or the gain on the amp slightly, while with the JB8 and the 2 Customs the palm muted riffs and single note runs stay tight with the common EQ & volume settings.
N.B. I'm a mids+bass+presence person, with the highs rolled back. Maybe I should reconsider my tone and give the TZ another chance?

I keep wanting to try a 59b, Full Shred b or the Screaming Demon. But I would have to have a new guitar to put it in. And that's not happening at the moment.

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[Securb]

I use a WLH for metal and I play some very extreme styles of metal.

 

[Mincer]

A great recipe is a vintage-output pickup that runs through some serious boost pedals. I like to use something with a fairly even EQ, then use an EQ to boost some frequencies. you don't always need super hot pickups.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Here’s the thing… it doesn’t really matter all that much.

Want a metal sound? Plug your guitar into a Dual Rectifier, 5150, or similar, and dial in a metal tone. Maybe toss an overdrive in front if you want a more modern metal sound.

 

[DonP]

Here’s the thing… it doesn’t really matter all that much.

Want a metal sound? Plug your guitar into a Dual Rectifier, 5150, or similar, and dial in a metal tone. Maybe toss an overdrive in front if you want a more modern metal sound.

I'd have to agree almost. I can tell a difference between vintage output and high output. But in the end, it's all different flavors of "good" to me.

 

[alex1fly]

Thanks all! Good things to ponder. Also enjoying this incredible pickup comparison video. Great playing, and cool to hear several metal techniques demo'ed back to back with several metal pickups.

I can tell a difference between vintage output and high output. But in the end, it's all different flavors of "good" to me.

I think this is the heart of what I'm getting at. Yes, you can do it with any pickup. But what's the high output flavor all about? What does it offer that medium/low output pickups don't? Yes, obviously more output to overdrive your amp... but is that it? Is there a difference in feel/vibe? Does it inspire in a different way? I've never used a high output passive pickup in 20+ years of playing, so it's a genuine curiosity.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

I think this is the heart of what I'm getting at. Yes, you can do it with any pickup. But what's the high output flavor all about? What does it offer that medium/low output pickups don't? Yes, obviously more output to overdrive your amp... but is that it? Is there a difference in feel/vibe? Does it inspire in a different way? I've never used a high output passive pickup in 20+ years of playing, so it's a genuine curiosity.

Yes, it does feel & sound different. With the hotter pickups, you get more compression, which, just like turning up the gain, makes it feel easier to play.

My first response came off sounding more "meh, whatever" than I think I really feel. If you're plugging a guitar straight into a cleanish Fender amp, I think the choice of pickup matters a lot more. For the type of metal tones I'm into, the amp, the speakers, the way the guitar is setup, the pick angle, and the pick itself are more crucial than the pickup.

My main player guitars are a Tele with Lace Sensor singles, a PRS CE24 with DiMarzios (Norton/Air Classic), PRS 305 with the stock singles, and a Falbo multiscale 8 string with Fishman Fluence Tosin Abasi pickups. The output of those guitars ranges from vintagey to flamethrower, and I can get a metal tone I'm happy with from any of them. The common thread is I'm using a Dual Recto amp model, lighter strings and lower action than I used to use, and a .88mm Jazz III pick held at a fairly severe angle.

 

[dave74]

IMO you get a punchier and more instant attack having more output right out of the gate.
Again, I'm not talking about dcr, just output.

Higher output with modest dcr gives you the jolt without as much compression as some of the older standards like the Invader and Distortion.

Look at the specs on some of the more modern models like Nazgul, Crunchlab, and Aftermath.
The Sonic Seducer in my Schecter is another great example of this. Huge ceramic magnet and a dcr of about 12. It crunches tight and clear but also sounds very full.

 

[bigcupholder]

Massive chuggage and clarity are opposing goals to some extent. For instance, the Duncan Distortion sounds massive, but definitely isn't as clear as more modern metal pickups.

It depends on what kind of metal you're playing, specifically whether you're playing a lot of dissonant chords where you want to clearly hear all the notes, or primarily power chords and single notes.

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[Mincer]

Massive chuggage and clarity are opposing goals to some extent. For instance, the Duncan Distortion sounds massive, but definitely isn't as clear as more modern metal pickups.

It depends on what kind of metal you're playing, specifically whether you're playing a lot of dissonant chords where you want to clearly hear all the notes, or primarily power chords and single notes.

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And these days, there are just a ton of formulas to reach all these goals. And amps probably have a lot more to do with the overall sound.

 

[chadd]

I keep wanting to try a 59b, Full Shred b or the Screaming Demon. But I would have to have a new guitar to put it in. And that's not happening at the moment.

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I always liked the Demon for the metal-ish stuff I used to play. A bit scooped and really articulate is a great combo for a modern amp that doesn't require high output pickups to drive it hard.

 

[alex1fly]

It depends on what kind of metal you're playing, specifically whether you're playing a lot of dissonant chords where you want to clearly hear all the notes, or primarily power chords and single notes.

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Curious to hear more on this idea. Why can't chuggage be both massive and clear? Or perhaps more eloquently, why is there a trade off between the two?

I guess I don't know what kind of metal I'm playing... is "both" an acceptable answer? Haha, definitely a lot of single note runs (not shreddy) but I throw jazz voicings into chords and that inevitably makes its way into my playing regardless of style.

 

[dave74]

Why can't chuggage be both massive and clear?

"Chug" is basically just dampening with the right hand. New term for an old thing.
It has a lot to do with bloating the mids and specifically getting that oomph in the lower-mids.

Most of the classic pickups that were good at this had very high dcr and would result in massive sounding yet somewhat mushy power chords, and forget about note clarity within larger open or "weird" chords. (again, it heavily depends on the amp too)

Some of the newer designs address this by keeping the strong output but reducing the dcr, and probably winding different too but that's beyond my knowledge level.

You mentioned progressive, djent, and JP, so I'd really suggest looking at the various JP models, and also the Duncan models touted as modern or progressive.

Pegasus might get you there too, but I'd think the Omega might really be the best fit given your info.

Nazgul has a massive chug and single-note clarity but it's still a burner (high-output with a 14dcr) so the notes of a power chord still get fused somewhat, in a good way for me but not everyone wants quite that much oomph.