Pickups sound different

[freefrog]

Anyone care to share pics of the "brass-like" or "yellowed" nickel-silver Duncans you've come across? I've seen nickel-silver darken and tarnish, but never "yellow" to the point it appeared "brass-like". Bonus points if your example is 2016 or newer!

My previous answer was saying: "Nickel silver can turn yellow, IME... I don't remember if I've noticed that on SD baseplates though".

Now, the baseplates shown in the following pages illustrate a yellowish shade that I've already noticed* on humbucker parts, generally speaking. Subjective experiences may vary.

https://www.philadelphialuthiertool...ckel-silver-frame-baseplate-blank-short-legs/

https://www.wdmusic.com/wd-humbucke...lver-49-2mm-50mm-or-52mm-spacing-details.html

https://www.fredguitar.com/en/basep...humbucking-silver-nickel-with-legs-518mm.html

*... which seems relatively logical knowing that copper and nickel are prominent in "German silver" while zinc doesn't go beyond 45% and can be as low as 10% if memory serves me right.

All that being said to contextualize my previous statement and not to argue in the void. ;-)

 

[SonicMage117]

Wood, headstock, strings, nut and fret board/neck aren't going to change your sound as much as people would have you believe, in fact that's minimal.

There are a few different factors that will cause this:

1.) Pickups age differently depending on where they are stored, even if you stacked them on top of each other, etc..

2.) Wiring and pots. Check your caps and your pots, this is most likely the reason for a completely different sound.

3.) Your guitars bridge. Your bridge alters your guitars sound and the interaction with the strings and the pickups. Even slight set-up variations will dictate some differences if you have the same bridge installed.

 

[sjasz]

Sorry, been busy. Here are the pictures of the two pickups.

The pickup height of the louder guitar was much higher due to the ring being a bit thicker and the screws being shorter. So had to shave down the ring and got some new screws (this is my pathetic excuse as to why it took so long to respond but partly true). I also found an empty package of Dadarrio strings which reminded me that the strings were not the same. After swapping out the strings the guitar that was formerly known as the loud guitar was comparable in loudness yet still a bit brighter. The overall brightness isn't too much of an issue, can be dealt with using EQ, and will likely subside as the strings age. The loud guitar also has a plastic nut but swapping nuts didn't seem to make a difference. I tried to swap out the wood but that got complicated really fast. My conclusion is that the pickup height was most of the issue and the strings was secondary. What put me off so much at the begining was pobably the way the increased level going through a very high gain signal change caused the feedback characteristics to change dramatically. I need to grind the strings on the frets more with the once louder guitar so a bit rough on the fingers but hoping that will change as the strings age.

Thanks for all the sugestions as checking pickup height and strings were very good suggestions.

Regards

 

[sjasz]

Oooops.

 

[beaubrummels]

Wood, headstock, strings, nut and fret board/neck aren't going to change your sound as much as people would have you believe, in fact that's minimal.

If that were true, all my Strats would sound identical.

1.) Pickups age differently depending on where they are stored, even if you stacked them on top of each other, etc..

Pickups don't exactly 'age', e.g. they aren't fruit. Are you saying you stack pickups on top of each other directly? That would mainly have an impact if you forced like poles against each other. If you allow opposite poles to pull the pickups together, there should be minimal to no affect doing that. If the pickups are in their original boxes, one won't have any affect on the other.

 

[Mincer]

I've had instances where a model I absolutely love sounds like ass in another guitar.

 

[freefrog]

Ah, yeah, even in a very same guitar, a same model of pickup set at different heights under different strings is likely to cause different sounds...

My answer in post 6 was about pickups at the same height under strings of a same brand, gauge and age, FWIW.

Glad to see the issue solved, anyway.

 

[SonicMage117]

If that were true, all my Strats would sound identical.




Pickups don't exactly 'age', e.g. they aren't fruit. Are you saying you stack pickups on top of each other directly? That would mainly have an impact if you forced like poles against each other. If you allow opposite poles to pull the pickups together, there should be minimal to no affect doing that. If the pickups are in their original boxes, one won't have any affect on the other.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I was saying that smaller variables are usually overlooked when talking about the topic. I didn't say that the things I listed would t cause your guitar to sound differently, just that there are other variables that are actually more prominent to making these types of results occur.

Pickups ain't fruit? Nobody said they were. According to MJ (who is a well known winder at Seymour Duncan Custom Shop), she says they age, and each set ages differently depending on where they are stored and how they are stored. So yeah, forgive me if I put her expertise over your knowledge. So not really going by anything I put there but this is all MJ lol I didn't say they go bad or anything like that, I never said getting stored somewhere would/wouldn't ruin your pickups, this is all your projecting again. At 52 years young, these old eyes are still keeping up! I do know that Seymour Duncan himself said pickups age, as well as Josephina from Fender.


https://youtu.be/IKd08CjAtnc?si=KGxnTch_RJZ9QEtT

10:05 timestamp is where the quote is, in case you're wondering....

 

[GuitarStv]

Glad you figured it out. I've had several pickups that didn't work for me initially where the problem was just tweaking the heights to perfection.

 

[Artie]

But also, your pots probably have a tolerance of 10-20%. That can be huge. One could, potentially, have a 500k vol pot read 450 and the other guitar has one measuring 550. I'd bet the treble responses would be noticeably different there.

It's actually worse than that. A typical 20% pot could vary 400k - 600k. I have a CTS 500k pot here that reads 384k.

 

[beaubrummels]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I was saying that smaller variables are usually overlooked when talking about the topic. I didn't say that the things I listed would t cause your guitar to sound differently, just that there are other variables that are actually more prominent to making these types of results occur.

Pickups ain't fruit? Nobody said they were. According to MJ (who is a well known winder at Seymour Duncan Custom Shop), she says they age, and each set ages differently depending on where they are stored and how they are stored. So yeah, forgive me if I put her expertise over your knowledge. So not really going by anything I put there but this is all MJ lol I didn't say they go bad or anything like that, I never said getting stored somewhere would/wouldn't ruin your pickups, this is all your projecting again. At 52 years young, these old eyes are still keeping up! I do know that Seymour Duncan himself said pickups age, as well as Josephina from Fender.


https://youtu.be/IKd08CjAtnc?si=KGxnTch_RJZ9QEtT

10:05 timestamp is where the quote is, in case you're wondering....

She's talking about PAFs that are over 50 years old. The OPs pickups were bought in 2016. You mentioned stacking the pickups on top of each other to store them, which is not what MJ is talking about.

 

[SonicMage117]

She's talking about PAFs that are over 50 years old. The OPs pickups were bought in 2016. You mentioned stacking the pickups on top of each other to store them, which is not what MJ is talking about.

Young man,
What she's saying is exactly what I'm talking about lol

Pickups age, regardlregardless It's a 10 years or 50 years. You can't go from "Pickups don't age, Pickups aren't fruits" to "That's not what she's talking about"

Everyone moreorless knows pickups naturally age and there are many variables that can speed up or help prolong the process. Even cleaning pickups can age them quickly but yeah, they're going to age regardless of if they're close to anything (transformers, magnets, metals, amps, etc). Weren't talking about inconsistencies and uneven winds in some of the pickups that were handmade in the 50's.

 

[beaubrummels]

Young man,
What she's saying is exactly what I'm talking about lol

Pickups age, regardlregardless It's a 10 years or 50 years. You can't go from "Pickups don't age, Pickups aren't fruits" to "That's not what she's talking about"

Everyone moreorless knows pickups naturally age and there are many variables that can speed up or help prolong the process. Even cleaning pickups can age them quickly but yeah, they're going to age regardless of if they're close to anything (transformers, magnets, metals, amps, etc). Weren't talking about inconsistencies and uneven winds in some of the pickups that were handmade in the 50's.

You actually believe a pickup made in 2016 has aged to a point it's output has changed? You actually believe cleaning a pickup will change it's tone and output?

 

[SonicMage117]

You actually believe a pickup made in 2016 has aged to a point it's output has changed? You actually believe cleaning a pickup will change it's tone and output?

As far as cleaning ruining the pickup, many have done it and paid the price so it doesn't really matter what you or I think....

This all has already been proven.
https://youtu.be/K8SGeKg8J9A?si=d5GFoyghOVyeEzmN


And yes, I do believe 10 years can possibly make a noticeable difference, mainly because I'm experienced enough to know that pickups age, not with time alone but with many variables. 10 years is a long time and a touring/working musician goes a lot of places. Again, you're the one who claimed pickups didn't age - and not just because you wanted to see if I knew what I was talking about but because you really didn't think they aged, so I'd expect you not to be aware of how environments or certain objects and tools could quickly age or even destroy a pickup. This isn't rocket science but maybe your ears and fingers can't detect the changes - since both sound and feel change as the magnet is aged. Most musicians can.

Are you going to prove they can't? I mean, it would be like trying to claim Seymour Duncan's aging process is a marketing scam.

 

[beaubrummels]

As far as cleaning ruining the pickup, many have done it and paid the price so it doesn't really matter what you or I think....

This all has already been proven.
https://youtu.be/K8SGeKg8J9A?si=d5GFoyghOVyeEzmN


And yes, I do believe 10 years can possibly make a noticeable difference, mainly because I'm experienced enough to know that pickups age, not with time alone but with many variables. 10 years is a long time and a touring/working musician goes a lot of places. Again, you're the one who claimed pickups didn't age - and not just because you wanted to see if I knew what I was talking about but because you really didn't think they aged, so I'd expect you not to be aware of how environments or certain objects and tools could quickly age or even destroy a pickup. This isn't rocket science but maybe your ears and fingers can't detect the changes - since both sound and feel change as the magnet is aged. Most musicians can.

Are you going to prove they can't? I mean, it would be like trying to claim Seymour Duncan's aging process is a marketing scam.

I didn't say ruin, I said change it's tone and output. I have been a touring and working musician and the effects you're claiming rarely ever happen. It takes a fairly reckless action to change pickup output and tone, like lean a guitar against a speaker cabinet with pickups facing the speaker magnets for a long time, or spill a drink straight into the guitar and let it rust and corrode the coil, which is just stupidity. With pickups just being in a guitar under normal use very little to nothing will ever change over time. For example, see this thread https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...install-magnetic-spacer?p=6313573#post6313573. Poorly made magnets might lose charge over a length of time, but that is rare and when it happens it's barely perceptible, at least not to the point someone believes that it's a different model pickup, which was the OPs problem.

The Duncan "Dun-Aged" process is cosmetic, which doesn't affect the tone and output of the model. It is something they market. "Dun-aged" is about the looks, not the tone. There are only a few models where they deliberately degauss the magnets to a specific level which does affect the tone and is done to replicate a specific pickup.

Also maybe take care in how you speak to others. You don't know who you are talking to or what their experience is. Insulting other members is against the rules here anyway.

 

[SonicMage117]

I didn't say ruin, I said change it's tone and output. I have been a touring and working musician and the effects you're claiming rarely ever happen. It takes a fairly reckless action to change pickup output and tone, like lean a guitar against a speaker cabinet with pickups facing the speaker magnets for a long time, or spill a drink straight into the guitar and let it rust and corrode the coil, which is just stupidity. With pickups just being in a guitar under normal use very little to nothing will ever change over time. For example, see this thread https://forum.seymourduncan.com/for...install-magnetic-spacer?p=6313573#post6313573. Poorly made magnets might lose charge over a length of time, but that is rare and when it happens it's barely perceptible, at least not to the point someone believes that it's a different model pickup, which was the OPs problem.

The Duncan "Dun-Aged" process is cosmetic, which doesn't affect the tone and output of the model. It is something they market. "Dun-aged" is about the looks, not the tone. There are only a few models where they deliberately degauss the magnets to a specific level which does affect the tone and is done to replicate a specific pickup.

Also maybe take care in how you speak to others. You don't know who you are talking to or what their experience is. Insulting other members is against the rules here anyway.

Yikes. Pickups aging is pickups aging. Pickup builders know this. One pickup can age I'm 10 years as much as another can in 50 years, depending on the journey. Why are you pretending that this isn't possible? Natural, unnatural, makes no difference. Magnets can be delicate and each reacts differently to different variables. Every pickup and guitar's life is vastly different which is why MJ said what she said.

Years of experience means nothing if you can't display the fundamental knowledge of pickups, I've met and worked with 19 year olds fresh into college who have more knowledge and know-how than 70 year olds who have "lifetimes of experience". Strange how that works, but let's get down to what matters here......

"But the Antiquity Humbuckers make your Les Paul look vintage and sound like a perfectly aged, priceless piece of rock ‘n’ roll history. We age each Antiquity humbucker in our Custom Shop in a process that simulates the tone and look of a perfectly broken-in and mellowed pickup." -Seymour Duncan

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/a-guide-to-seymour-duncan-paf-pickups

Yeah, they're not talking about cosmetics only. I know you'll have a way out for that but at least that proves itself but I am curious at what your next rebuttal would be.

And no,
Calling you out on multiple threads where you've made snide remarks and cornered yourself isn't on me. I've never insulted or disrespected you or anyone else here. You seem to have a habit of making excuses for anything you word or say wrongly. First it was on my intro thread where you falsely claimed that I wouldn't share my thoughts, which never happened. Then when I posted my videos you claimed that my modded guitars changed pickups sound too much for others to take into consideration. Now it's gone from "Pickups never age" to "Pickups won't age in 10 years" to "Careful how you talk to others". I'm a firm believer in giving respect where it's due. If you don't like it, you don't have to talk to me or read my comments - otherwise play stupid games, win stupid prizes. At 52 years of age, I don't have all the time for the drama, no offense.

 

[beaubrummels]

Um, just wow. I think we'll leave it at that.

 

[SonicMage117]

Haha, okay. Happy Memorial Day to you all! I'm cooking the fam some ribs at the moment
:unitedsta:drive:

 

[jeremy]

we can have different view points, but lets keep it more civil please.