POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

[Lazarus1140]

I have accepted the invitation to play with a band in a couple of weeks in a situation where no stage volume is permitted. I bought a Vox ToneLab ST the last time I was in this situation and I was really frustrated with my inability to make it sound good.

I'm wondering if I should step up to the POD HD 400. Another option might be to try a Blackstar HT 20 (a $100 more expensive option) which has a line out for recording which I suppose could run to the mains. Has anyone used an HT20 like that? Are the cleans decent?

Also, I don't understand ...... the website says turn down the master volume for silent recording. Does this mean the line out is before the power amp section? I mean, if I could raise or lower the master volume while "recording" to use the amp/speaker as a monitor ..... how does this not affect the line out level?

Help?

The real bummer is that this is really not a good time for me to be shelling out money for stuff I won't use very often.

Maybe someone can clue me in on how to set the Vox so I don't throw it at someone.


Edit: I am really busy today so I won't be checking in often.

 

[ErikH]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

What kind of gig is it that no stage volume is permitted? How are you supposed to hear yourself and the rest of the group? Are the mains behind you?

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

What kind of gig is it that no stage volume is permitted? How are you supposed to hear yourself and the rest of the group? Are the mains behind you?

It is an extremely small church building and the mains are behind the band. Last time I played there I couldn't hear myself in the mains, stayed PO'd for about a week, and convinced myself I'd never play there again, but other musicians have been bandmates of mine off and on since '96 and I enjoy playing with them.

I was kinda surprised you guys weren't jamming the Southlake festival this weekend!

 

[ErikH]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Gotcha. Interesting setup. POD's can work but need to be dialed in for that setup. Working with it at home then taking it there and plugging it in doesn't work. It needs to be set with that setup. Same with the Tonelab you used last time. I used my RP-500 for a gig a few years ago where the stage was super tight and ran it through the monitors and mains direct. Had to tweak things beforehand so I could hear myself and cut through.

Use what you have and get there early enough to tweak the setup.

Honestly, I didn't even know there was a festival this weekend in Southlake...LOL. Everybody was busy too. We were supposed to practice but that didn't even happen. We are playing at Kellerfest on the 29th from 6-8 PM.

 

[sbecker67]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

........The real bummer is that this is really not a good time for me to be shelling out money for stuff I won't use very often........

I was going to say the POD HD won't let you down and to go for it until I got to this point in your post.

Given this and that it's, so far, a one time show; go get a Tech 21 Character Pedal of choice, i.e Blonde, Liverpool, Leeds, etc... You can run that straight to the board, use all of your existing pedals with it and then feed a monitor for 'stage' volume. In an out for $150 or less and the Character Pedal can easily be incorporated into your existing board as a standalone pedal for extra 'flavor'.

 

[sosomething]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Sounds like the worst gig evAr

Just bring a guitar and nothing else

don't even plug it in

if anybody starts looking at you like they think something isn't right, just put a hand or two up in the air and smile at the ceiling

seems to work well in those situations

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Sounds like the worst gig evAr

Just bring a guitar and nothing else

don't even plug it in

if anybody starts looking at you like they think something isn't right, just put a hand or two up in the air and smile at the ceiling

seems to work well in those situations

That's what I did last time and they still asked me back. Before playing last time I had learned all the guitar parts and when the last song rolled around I was so frustrated that I forgot to play a lead fill. I was standing right in front of the mains and I could hear the acoustic player acoustically better than I could hear myself in the mains.

I told them that an acoustic is all they need in a building that small but they really want me to be there. I am willing to suffer a little because it is so good to be wanted. Plus, I have been in and out of bands all my life and it's a drag going more than a few months without that live band magic. This current withdrawal has lasted almost four months.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Erik, It was a full weekend with both Ft. Worth and Southlake having their street/art festivals with live music and the Dallas Guitar Show. Southlake was the only thing I could squeeze in. I totally believe you're right about the home setting on a digital multi-effects box not translating properly to the new setting. Those adjustments are certainly easier to make with an amp and pedals.

sb, Thanks for the hot tip. I will check that out!

 

[sosomething]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

That's what I did last time and they still asked me back. Before playing last time I had learned all the guitar parts and when the last song rolled around I was so frustrated that I forgot to play a lead fill. I was standing right in front of the mains and I could hear the acoustic player acoustically better than I could hear myself in the mains.

I told them that an acoustic is all they need in a building that small but they really want me to be there. I am willing to suffer a little because it is so good to be wanted. Plus, I have been in and out of bands all my life and it's a drag going more than a few months without that live band magic. This current withdrawal has lasted almost four months.

Well, you're jonesing for a gig and you're helping out your friends, so it can't be all bad (I guess).

Regardless, it is not a workable situation for an electric guitar player to play without any personal monitor system, whether it's an amp or a little speaker pointed at your head or whatever. You need to be able to hear yourself. I can't see how they can complain if your stage volume is only about as loud as the acoustic guitar.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

I think they'll be a little more flexible this time. It is such a bummer to leave my collection of pedal at home and go play through a tweakbox. Not that the Vox is that bad. I'm just not a good tweaker.

 

[Mattr4president]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

you probably want to do the POD unless that line out on the head has a cab sim. I'm sure the POD HD won't be too horrible but i would ask them to put at least 1 floor monitor for you guys to share. must be painful to play without one. if you just want to hear yourself you could run some headphones from the POD or a tiny speaker or something.

 

[Simon_F]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

I have been in and out of bands all my life and it's a drag going more than a few months without that live band magic.

Not having any stage volume kind of kills that magic!

Using the Phones/Recording output of a Roland Cube disconnects the speaker, so maybe that's a possibility...

But I also think you should at least be allowed the same stage volume as the acoustic guitar!

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

They put me in the monitors, but I just can't hear the guitar because it gets lost in the monitor mix with vocals, bass, and keyboards. Why they have bass in the monitors is beyond me.

Matt, the Blackstar does claim the line out to be a cab sim.

Does the headphone out on the POD not disable the line out?

 

[Mattr4president]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

They can put me in the monitors, but I just can hear the guitar because it get lost in the monitor mix with vocals, bass, and keyboards. Why they have bass in the monitors is beyond me.

Matt, the Blackstar does claim the line out to be a cab sim.

Does the headphone out on the POD not disable the line out?

Nope, you can run your line outs and headphones at the same time. I did it this weekend when i recorded my drummer. I had the drum set mic'd up going to the mixer, head phone from my POD XT out to the drummer and line out from my POD XT Live going to the recorder just to have as a scratch track. All the convoluted mayhem because he doesn't have a metronome.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

They can put me in the monitors, but I just can hear the guitar because it get lost in the monitor mix with vocals, bass, and keyboards. Why they have bass in the monitors is beyond me.

Matt, the Blackstar does claim the line out to be a cab sim.

Does the headphone out on the POD not disable the line out?

For what it's worth, the headphone out on the HT-5 does a pretty good job. I did find that it's subject to the master volume level, though, which makes me wonder how it's implemented. I would think it would tap out from the same node as the effects loop send, but I guess it's not.

I don't hear all that much difference between the 4x12 and the 1x12, but it's really not bad. Maybe go play around with the HT-20 just for grins. And even if you don't like the headphone out, you could take the effects loop send, since you can take pedal or line level out of that.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Edit to my OP:

I should have said that the head dude has learned to fear guitarists who can control their own stage volume so he doesn't want amps on stage. There is obviously some stage volume with the live acoustic and with a monitor mix and volume controlled by people who are probably not musicians.

 

[devastone]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

I feel your pain, and I have an RP1000 and a HT 20 head and go direct in church.

I love the tone of the HT20 through a speaker cab, but it falls a little short direct. Long story short, I usually end up using my RP1000 for convenience, I'm the only one that knows it doesn't "feel" right. It's easier to set up and use than dragging my pedal board and the HT20 with me. Lazy, I know, but it's usually only 4 songs and alot of the time half of those are acoustic. Honestly, is anyone besides me going to notice that my tone breathes and feels better other than me? 99.9% no...

My advice is to tweak your Vox the best you can before hand and use that instead of dropping more $ into it. Like someone else said, unless you have alot of time to tweak your setup with the PA setup, it's not really going to matter. If it's anything like our situation, you run in and have a few minutes to setup before one rehearsal, then again on Sunday, so there really isn't any time for lots of tweaking. And again, is anyone really going to notice that your tone is 10% better? (but your wallet is 100% emptier)

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this more, I've tried a few different things at home to try to get something "better" and haven't come up with better solution to the RP1000 yet.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

If it's anything like our situation, you run in and have a few minutes to setup before one rehearsal, then again on Sunday, so there really isn't any time for lots of tweaking. And again, is anyone really going to notice that your tone is 10% better? (but your wallet is 100% emptier)

Thanks for the report on the HT20. I guess leaving an actual speaker out of the tone formula essentially gets you back to digital anyway (except for the Tech 21 idea).

And you are even more correct about the $.

As far as the "situation" ......... we will have two long Saturday night rehearsals to get songs and sounds ironed out and then a short rehearsal Sunday AM, and if this is anything like last time ..... everything will change as soon as the service starts.

 

[devastone]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Don't get me wrong, the HT20 rocks through a speaker cab and the cab sim out does sound good. I don't know if the sound coming out of the mains will show that much improvement over the Tonelab you are currently using. I haven't used a Tonelab, but I bought the RP1000 on a whim last spring or summer after reading tons of great reviews on it, but like you, I find that I'm just not enough of a tweaker. It sounds good, but it doesn't sound real to me, at least through my recording set up at home w/ M-Audio BX8a monitors. I really don't know what it sounds like out the mains at church, I do have it in my Aviom monitor, but I'm also not a huge fan of headphone monitors systems.

GOtta run, work calls...

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: POD vs Amp - Need help with decision

Thanks for all the ideas, guys. I just realized that I'm playing in 6 days ...... not two weeks. It's too late to make any serious gear changes.

Wow - I have some songs to learn in a hurry!