Poly vs. nitro??

[papersoul]

I can't realy tell how either effect tone! I have played PRS and Gibsond that sound great but can't see how the poly or nitro can have that much of an audible difference. I think if it did.....the companies would have caught on. I always hear that Nitro sounds better and alows more tone to come through. Anyone actualy hear this difference?? I am not sure what USA Hamer uses but I am certain PRS and USA Dean use poly and Gibson uses Nitro.

 

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I use both
poly is a little stronger , but i find its a little thicker and sometimes not as "clear" a finsih - less transparent - so sometimes i switch to nitro
that being said
I find that way too much is made over whether a guitar is poly or nitro - I'll do either for a customer, but if either is done properly (which is important) I don't think most people would be able to hear a guitar an proclaim - ah that must be poly
after the way an amp, pickups, body wood, neckwood, even FB wood effect tone, I don't thin most people can hear the difference in a paint job
but i could be wrong

 

[MattPete]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I think in some states (Cali?) it's illegal to use nitro because of environmental regulations.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

The diff is more noticable in acoustic guitars where the thick poly and catalized finishes will dampen the tone a bit compared to a thinly applied nitro finish. But it makes a diff in electrics too. I prefer the thinnest possible finish. I think it feels better and looks better....and sounds better. The solvents used in most finishes are very toxic...that's why you see catalized finishes that dry by a chemical reaction, like epoxy does. They don't give off as much toxic fumes into the air when they harden. Nitro does because the lacquer thinner evaporates into the air as poison. Lew

 

[kaknight]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

BTW, PRS doesn't use nitro. They use a "secret" poly finish.

 

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

from what i know
prs used to use all poly, now they use poly base with nitro/lacquer topcoat

 

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

from what i know
prs used to use all poly, now they use poly base with nitro/lacquer topcoat

When did they make the switch?

 

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

The diff is more noticable in acoustic guitars where the thick poly and catalized finishes will dampen the tone a bit compared to a thinly applied nitro finish. But it makes a diff in electrics too. I prefer the thinnest possible finish. I think it feels better and looks better....and sounds better. The solvents used in most finishes are very toxic...that's why you see catalized finishes that dry by a chemical reaction, like epoxy does. They don't give off as much toxic fumes into the air when they harden. Nitro does because the lacquer thinner evaporates into the air as poison. Lew

Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

What companies use Nitro? I know Gibson. What about Hamer?

I still doubt the average person can tell the difference or nobody would buy a PRS. From my understanding, PRS uses several coats as does Hamer. That's why you hear guys onthe LP forum stating PRS finishes can look plastic.

 

[Ken]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I certainly agree in the case of acoustics. It takes some of the "breath" out of the instrument.

Electrics on the other hand, unless the finish is just ungodly thick...it shouldn't have that much affect on the tone. Appearance? Quite certainly. But tone? I'm not so sure about.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I aggree with Blueline. I don't think the finish will make any audible difference in solid body electric guitars. In Archtops or acoustics, maybe. The primary reason why Nitro was always more desirable is the laquer is more elastic, and when applied properly it will move with the wood. It is also more desirable because it can be blended better than some of the newer finishes when repairs to the finish is required. The reason why some of the older Gibson and Epiphone guitars all laquer checked is because Gibson applied a very heavy coat of finish and as the wood moved under the laquer it would crack (the laquer). Although this is considered to be desireable by collectors, and has been duplicated using various techniques. If the proper amount of laquer is applied and the guitar is cared for properly laquer checking should be minimized!!!

 

[terry m finegan]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

nitro is eaiser to repair and w/the right toners the effects can be stunning/poly is surface harder but not as brilliant when using a transparent/some tats clean air act restricts nitro use/nitro lacquermoves with temp shrinks grows nothing i know of can look like it but its time consuming coats sanded more coats sanding etc/as far as sound they are reaching for any leverage when i first got my 1st guitar there were only a few brands that were available now the competition for entry players is incredable/ so let your earr do the walking insulate the wiring and the cavity

 

[FenderBoy]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I only own a Poly finish strat. that being said I prefer how Nitro looks on sunburst strats. I would have bought with a Nitro finish strat if Fender had the American Series (2001 or newer) with a nitro finish. I played a 57 reissue and I didn't like the 7.5" neck

 

[beandip]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

I like the poly bodies (the very thin ones) but I really prefer nitro on a neck. The wear spots and the way the back of the neck feels after a few years is bliss to me.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

Lacquer thinner is toxic as heck and that's why conventianal lacquers aren't used by any of the big companies any longer. It's like sniffing glue and harmful to your brain cells and nervous system. It's worst when it's being sprayed and when the finish is still wet. After the finish is dry to touch, it still takes months and months to get as hard as going to get...during that time the finish is still out-gassing, but only someone with chemical sensitivity problems would probably be affected. There are alot of people like that tho...people who get a headache or get sick from a new finish or new car smell.

 

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

i think prs switched for better clarity - a little of both worlds kinda approach

i prefer neither on necks and thats why all my necks are hand rubbed oil finsihed

 

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

Lacquer thinner is toxic as heck and that's why conventianal lacquers aren't used by any of the big companies any longer. It's like sniffing glue and harmful to your brain cells and nervous system. It's worst when it's being sprayed and when the finish is still wet. After the finish is dry to touch, it still takes months and months to get as hard as going to get...during that time the finish is still out-gassing, but only someone with chemical sensitivity problems would probably be affected. There are alot of people like that tho...people who get a headache or get sick from a new finish or new car smell.

Well, my LP was received about two months ago and it had arrived two months prior to that in the store.

 

[papersoul]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

i think prs switched for better clarity - a little of both worlds kinda approach

i prefer neither on necks and thats why all my necks are hand rubbed oil finsihed

Where do you getthat type of neck? The only thing I found was the Peavey Wolfgang.

 

[mrfjones]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Where do you getthat type of neck? The only thing I found was the Peavey Wolfgang.

he makes the neck himself.

On the guitar that blueline is making for me i am having a nitro finish applied, not because i think it will really affect the tone at all but because it is very vintage correct to a 1952/53 telecaster. He is putting many thin layers of nitro on the guitar to make the best possible finish for the guitar. I also wanted nitro because the nitro finishes seem to be thinner. I have one guitar now that is finished in nitro and all the rest are poly, i prefer the feel of the nitro covered neck as apposed to the poly finishes. I can feel the wood under teh finish better, it is that much thinner than the poly finishes. It really feels less like plastic to me. I have however rubbed mot of the poly off the neck of my tele and it feels great, but it took a lot of playing and rubbing to do that.

 

[Blueline]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Papersoul - I am a custom guitar builder, and on the guitars I build I finish the bodies in poly or nitro but i hand rub all the necks with 6-10 VERY VERY thin layers of tru-oil (its a little more complicated than just "rubbing") but it provides an amzingly fast playing surface that doesn't gum up when you're hands are sweaty from a 3 hr gig.

feel free to PM me

 

[Bludave]

Re: Poly vs. nitro??

Lew,

Does that mean that a Nitro finished guitar can give of poisonous fumes??

Lacquer thinner is toxic as heck and that's why conventianal lacquers aren't used by any of the big companies any longer. It's like sniffing glue and harmful to your brain cells and nervous system. It's worst when it's being sprayed and when the finish is still wet. After the finish is dry to touch, it still takes months and months to get as hard as going to get...during that time the finish is still out-gassing, but only someone with chemical sensitivity problems would probably be affected. There are alot of people like that tho...people who get a headache or get sick from a new finish or new car smell.

The primary reason why Nitro is not used any longer by major builders is due the EPA regulations. All Companies must have proper ventalation, and hazardous waste removal in place and it needs to be proved in the event a inspection is requested by the state in where the guitars are being made. Violations of state EPA laws can be very expensive. The MSDS (material saftey data sheets) on Nitro reads very bad, and only small builders are using this today. Unfortunatley IMO it offers the best finish of all the materials being used.