Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

B2D

SDUGF Riffologist Supremö
I've never been totally 100% in love with my Boogie Dual Rec Multiwatt. It always seems like there's a "but" when I'm talking about it. As in "The cleans are nice but..." " the high gain tone is really tight but..." you know what I mean?

I think I tend to gravitate towards amps that have the following attributes in them:

- 2 channels, maybe with some modes or options switches but nothing too fancy. A simple layout overall.
- Really good, yet simple effects loops.
- Plays well with pedals.
- Bridges a hard rock/old school metal category but can still be versatile enough for classic rock and blues and the like.
- Not very stiff... very touch-reactive and a bit compressed but not dry.
- Tight, deep, fat lows, clear, crisp mids and smooth but defined highs.

I tend to go between 6L6's and EL34's based on the amp. I've been known to like 5881's as well. 50w or 100w - doesn't matter, someone's gonna tell me to turn down anyways. :D

I really like my cab and the speakers in it, so that's not really an issue, it's mainly a good head I'm after.

I've been thinking about throwing EL34's in my Dual Rec and seeing if that pushes it in the direction I want, but I seem to remember liking it more with 6L6's. I'll try it again anyways.

My Boogie Tremoverb was about as close to being the amp as I ever got, but it had some issues. A little on the noisy side, the tremolo never really did seem to work as advertised, not the best effects loop, could be buzzy occasionally. The Dual Rec Multiwatt is smoother, tighter, cleans up better, and overall is a slightly better amp, but the Tremoverb had a slightly more organic feel and that simpler layout I like. Overall MOST Mesa's have this brash quality to them that I can never seem to dial out, in the same way that I could never get the mids on my Ecstasy to sit quite right.

My wife is of the opinion that I should save up and get a good boutique tube head, and I'm of course apt to agree with her but I like to find less expensive solutions if at all possible.

I've been looking at mainly three amps: The Friedman BE100 and the CAA/Suhr OD100 are the two top contenders. I've only played each of them once but I remember them being amazing machines. Friedman really doesn't make an amp I don't like. The Naked and the Dirty Shirley are fabulous as well, but I think the BE100 is going to get me that versatility that I want at the end of the day. At the end of the day I think the Suhr is a bit more "American" sounding (I think the one I played used 5881s) and the BE100 is just a swiss army knife of British stuff with good cleans as well. I played the BE100 back when it was still called the Marsha and side by side with a Naked it was a tough call. I'd pick the Naked in a second if I was doing more hard rock and metal oriented stuff all the time. In a perfect world I'd get a Naked, a BE100, a Dirty Shirley, and some big tube Fender and call it a day. :D

Interestingly enough I've had a lot of fun playing with the Marshall JVM 205 and 210 heads in stores as well. A friend I know and respect on the matter tells me that I would do well with one. I'm not interested in the 4-channel versions. 2 channels with 3 modes each is useable to me, 4x3 would be too much. I really like the basic tones coming out of that amp and the feel of it, I just wish it had the punch and the immediacy of my Mesa, you know? It certainly has the versatility thing going for it. Is there something I could do to a JVM or specific tubes to feed it that might get me what I want? Or should I put some different tubes in my Mesa and see if that sates me for now?

Suggestions of any other amps that fit the general description of what I'm after would be welcome. :smokin:
 
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Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been giving the Egnater Vengeance a whirl. It's got a great clean channel and a modern American Diezel/Soldano type vibe in the gain channel. It's really laid out like a Bogner in a way, since it's got mini switches and a mixable FX loop. The big bonus is the easy biasing on the back panel. You can bias any kind of octal tube in it, and use a volt meter to set it. You can bias them in duets, so you can even mix tubes. It comes with good Ruby and Tungsol tubes.

I really liked the sound of it with 6L6's, then tried JJ E-34L's, realized it messed up the clean tone and marginally heavied up the gain channel, so I went back to 6L6's. I think they shipped it with the tubes it sounds best with honestly.

Find a Vengeance as cheap as you can find one for. I'm pretty sure you'll dig it. It's quality built, and impresses you more and more when you get it home. It does apartment volume and crushing loud volume!
It's best at doing a Satriani, Timmons, Gilbert, Vai type thing.....it's got that kind of sustaining lead thing that feels good under the fingers....as opposed to a drier metal chunk.

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Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been giving the Egnater Vengeance a whirl. It's got a great clean channel and a modern American Diezel/Soldano type vibe in the gain channel. It's really laid out like a Bogner in a way, since it's got mini switches and a mixable FX loop. The big bonus is the easy biasing on the back panel. You can bias any kind of octal tube in it, and use a volt meter to set it. You can bias them in duets, so you can even mix tubes. It comes with good Ruby and Tungsol tubes.

I really liked the sound of it with 6L6's, then tried JJ E-34L's, realized it messed up the clean tone and marginally heavied up the gain channel, so I went back to 6L6's. I think they shipped it with the tubes it sounds best with honestly.

Find a Vengeance as cheap as you can find one for. I'm pretty sure you'll dig it. It's quality built, and impresses you more and more when you get it home. It does apartment volume and crushing loud volume!
It's best at doing a Satriani, Timmons, Gilbert, Vai type thing.....it's got that kind of sustaining lead thing that feels good under the fingers....as opposed to a drier metal chunk.

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I'll check it out Again. I remember trying one and not being to thrilled by it, it just didn't seem like it had a whole lot of guts and was a little too squishy feeling for my taste. But like I said, I'm willing to give everything another go.

Oh and by the way speaking of Marshalls, apparently the JCM900 is a vintage reissue now?? Huh. It ships with 5881s which could be interesting. I never had a problem with 900s personally. It may not be as refined as some of the newer designs but I'll have to try that out as well.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

My wife is of the opinion that I should save up and get a good boutique tube head, and I'm of course apt to agree with her but I like to find less expensive solutions if at all possible.

I love your wife! Does she have a sister? ;)


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

If you can, I'd look into the EVH 5150III head. It's extremely versatile and can pretty much get any tone you're after. For a simple head, there's not much you couldn't do with it. Plus, describing the tones you're after, this amp was the first to come to my mind.

It's got the versatility, the characteristics of a Marshall but is more than capable of getting that punch.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

- 2 channels, maybe with some modes or options switches but nothing too fancy. A simple layout overall.
- Really good, yet simple effects loops.
- Plays well with pedals.
- Bridges a hard rock/old school metal category but can still be versatile enough for classic rock and blues and the like.
- Not very stiff... very touch-reactive and a bit compressed but not dry. :smokin:

you own a great amp, but I always recommend the amp I own for "hard rock/old school metal category but can still be versatile enough for classic rock and blues and the like"

I own the Orange Thunderverb 50
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been very happy with the Splawn Pro Mod I picked up last fall. Even when it's set for some monstrous gain, the distortion channel cleans up nicely, plus it's got a great clean channel with some nice spanky compression to it. But be forewarned, Splawns are big on mids, so if you go for a more scooped out tone, look elsewhere.

Here's a clip of me playing through mine (I apologize for the sloppy playing and editing). http://youtu.be/IBCZNc63fsI
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

Carvin Nomad/Bel Air? They're in the Vintage line. I'd like to say I had personal experience with them. 2 channels, Fendery clean and Marshally crunch. A lot of people say the dirty side sounds congested and get it modded to really open it up. Really thick reverb, lots of effects loop happiness. It's 4x EL84-powered so there's a lot of tube warmth going on. Apparently you can pull two for less power too.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been giving the Egnater Vengeance a whirl. It's got a great clean channel and a modern American Diezel/Soldano type vibe in the gain channel. It's really laid out like a Bogner in a way, since it's got mini switches and a mixable FX loop. The big bonus is the easy biasing on the back panel. You can bias any kind of octal tube in it, and use a volt meter to set it. You can bias them in duets, so you can even mix tubes. It comes with good Ruby and Tungsol tubes.

I really liked the sound of it with 6L6's, then tried JJ E-34L's, realized it messed up the clean tone and marginally heavied up the gain channel, so I went back to 6L6's. I think they shipped it with the tubes it sounds best with honestly.

Find a Vengeance as cheap as you can find one for. I'm pretty sure you'll dig it. It's quality built, and impresses you more and more when you get it home. It does apartment volume and crushing loud volume!
It's best at doing a Satriani, Timmons, Gilbert, Vai type thing.....it's got that kind of sustaining lead thing that feels good under the fingers....as opposed to a drier metal chunk.

top.png

I've been gonna ask ya a couple things about your Vengeance. How well does the distortion/lead channel clean up with a guitar's volume control and how scooped out can it get? I've been contemplating a two amp rig with my Splawn on one side and something fairly scooped out in the other.

Sorry for the thread hijack, OP.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been gonna ask ya a couple things about your Vengeance. How well does the distortion/lead channel clean up with a guitar's volume control and how scooped out can it get? I've been contemplating a two amp rig with my Splawn on one side and something fairly scooped out in the other.

The Vengeance has a lot of control over the mids in both channels. Each channel has it's own mid shift on the Footswitch even! That means it has normal mids, but you can choose to let the footswitch scoop the mids or boost them, one or the other. I hate scooped mids on either channel, so I assigned the footswitch to only boost them. Other than that, all the controls are very useable, and I like the depth knob and 2nd assignable master volume. It gives you a lot of control.

I can see how trying an Egnater Vengeance in a store may leave some wondering if it's really a quality piece or not, mostly because the Vengeance cab has licensed Celestion G75's. When I bought it, all I could hear it through was a POS Line 6 cab. Once I brought it home and heard it with my good cabs, I realized it can hang with amps like Bogner, Soldano, ENGL, Diezel etc. I think it's one of the best amps Egnater makes.

I was amazed that it shipped with Tungsol preamp tubes and Ruby's best 6L6's.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

It sounds to me like the Mesas you have are not the Mesa's you need....at least for the style of music you are playing.

I would advise you to look away from the Rectifiers and more towards the Mark Series amps. I have three IIIs, a IV and now a V, and I am still so impressed with these amps. The Mark V is just an amazing amp. I really like the clean tones, and to be honest, that's mostly where I live with the band I have now. When I first plugged into one, I found great, usable tones in all three channels in less than five minutes. I've been gigging a lot over the last couple years with my Mark IV, so I found my favorite lead tone almost instantly. The CRUNCH channel is a bit of a boggle to me--there are just so many terrific tones, I haven't able to pick a favorite yet.

My IV is a 112 EVM combo, and I typically use a Mesa 112 EVM Theile cab underneath it. It's not light, but it is darn powerful and so compact. Nice small footprint, which is great for these tiny stages. The Mark IV probably takes a little more tweaking than the V, because of the control layout, but the truly amazing thing about the IV is the amount of control you have over the power amp. I use the Simul-Class with EL34s in those sockets, Harmonics, Triode, and the Tweed settings as my "normals" with the Presence knobs pulled. Just great all around tones. I feel like I can walk into ANY situation with that amp and have it covered.

Ditto with the Mark IIIs. I have red stripe and blue stripe combos; both are fully loaded with the EQ, Simul-Class, 112 EVMs and Reverb. My big amp is a Mark III Coliseum 200-watt head and matching Half-Back 412, and this amp is just a joyful machine--if I can get the Master Volume above three. These amps are really simple to gig with and easy to set up. They handle pedals so well, and do any genre, from twangy country, to blues, to rock and beyond. I tend to not think of them as three channel amps, but as two channel amps with an alternative clean channel. The R2 Channel on these amps are often maligned, but I can get a nice crunch, or roll down my guitar's volume for a warm jazzy tone that's just on the verge of breakup. I will often set my III's up to use the LEAD channel to solo with my G&L Legacy, and then use the R2 for my Les Paul solos.

I'll admit that Marks are not for everyone; Mesa has some newer amps that are a little more versatile, like the Express and the Lone Star. The Electro-Dyne is has a simple preamp, and for rock and blues tones, it hits like a 20-lb. sledge. The Royal Atlantic came out of the Stiletto Series, and not only produces great EL34 tones but also has the built in attenuators, which is pretty sweet. I also really liked the TA-30 for more Vox-type tones, but the 212 Maverick combo I have covers that area for me.

I have never been a big fan of the Rectos, they just don't fit my all-around needs. I think they work very well for metal and drop-tuned riffs, but they're not the amp I immediately think of when I think of Blues. One thought did occur to me though when you were describing your amps; I wondered if doing some preamp tube "blueprinting" might help you get closer to the tones you need from your Rectifier. And if may very well be that your Tremoverb is simply due for a service. That amp should feel more "organic" than the DR, but the issues with the tremolo and the noisy loop make me think that there may be some minor, fixable problems. You might call the people at Mesa, and see if they can offer any assistance or advice.

I think the toughest problem for finding a new amp is when your current amp is just a smidge off. It's hard to know whether to go in a different direction, modify the heck out of what you got, or just resign yourself to being unhappy. I know it can be really frustrating...I spent a number of years with vintage Fender, Marshall, Acoustic, Peavey and SUNN amp playing the, "...if it would only do this..." game. It wasn't until I got my first Mesa that I became really happy with my amps, and I now have a nice stable of amps that can cover any venue, any genre. YMMV, of course.

I wish you a lot of luck. Don't forget to enjoy the journey. Let us know what you come up with.

Bill
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

A Bugera 333XL Infinium will probably give you the tone you're looking for in spades..

Lots of hate & derision out there for Bugera's lol....but it's an awesome sounding amp & I've had mine/gigged with it for 2 years now without a days hassle..

No frills room demo's. Prefer them to the overproduced, multi-tracked, Fx loaded slick demo's that make every amp sound the same..with a bit of imagination, these make it easier to gauge the actual amp sound.... (I think)



 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

^ He's one of the best metal guitarists I've heard on youtube! Killer chops!
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

Friedman and CAA/Suhr are VERY expensive. Of all of the Friedmans, the BE100 is probably my favorite. However, if you want something more organic, then the Suhr/CAA OD100 might be your best bet between the two. The BE100 is kind of a bright amp and lends itself to a variety of styles, but brown sounds the best. You could consider the CAA/Suhr PT100 which is the Pete Thorn-tweaked model. It's a bit more affordable than the OD100 too if I'm not mistaken.

If you are in the mind of spending that kind of money, the ENGL SE is definitely worth looking into. If you are one who associates ENGL with metal, then it would be a mistake to make that stereotype because you would be missing out on an incredibly good amplifier. Then there's the ENGL Retro 100 & 50w models which cost less and offers a variety of incredible clean, driven, and distorted tones.

If you want to stick with prestigious boutique stuff, you can check out Komet amps and Carol Ann. The Carol Ann Triptik is offered in 25, 50 and 100w models. That's one superb sounding British style amp with lots of versatility. If you want 6L6, you can check out the Toucana 2 which I think is kind of like a 6L6/American voiced version of the Triptik.

Then again, in that price range, there's the Bogner Ecstasy 20th Anniversary head. You can order it with 6V6's if you want lower volume capabilities and slightly more midrange honk. You can go with EL34's if you want to get closer to the 101B sound. There's the class A/B option, but that's a few $$ more. It comes stock with 6L6's, and used to think EL34's were the best option, but over time the stock 6L6 version stuck to me. As far as I'm concerned, it has the best cleans of ANY amp I have ever played. There's no need to mention the overdrive/distortion sounds as it should already be renowned for those.

If you're not stuck in UK/Euro or American-made, you should check out Blackstar Series One amps. They are THE best, non UK/Euro/American-manufactured amps in the world - period.

I currently own a Diezel D-Moll (KT77s) which is extremely versatile. The Schmidt is THE choice for more British type tone if you can afford a Herbert or want class A goodness that surpasses even Badcat. The D-Moll is the successor of the Einstein (discontinued), but to me sounds quite different. It's less hi-fi than the Einstein and has better tweaking options which to me makes it more versatile for a variety of styles. The clean channel on the Einstein was really good, but the D-Moll has even better cleans. Moreover, it's not necessarily as bassy with the bit of natural mid-scoop that the Einstein has. It's has a bit more midrange overall, and leaves the scoop completely at the control of the contour settings. 3 channels - it's a dream amp.

If you're into the Mesa Boogie thing then the Mark V does it all. Personally, however, I find that the new Express 5:50 Plus offers everything I want from a Mesa Boogie for a lot less cost.

In all honesty, if I had to choose any of the amps listed, I'd go with the Engl SE (offered in 6L6 or EL34). In the past, even though I knew Engl amps are so, so much more than metal amps, the name/prestige value influenced me. In the end, it is the SE that I dream about now. There is simply no compromise in the SE. You can get everything you want, in any style from the SE without compromising a thing. You can switch around from clean, crunch, rhythm, lead... with nothing left wanting. If you prefer a bit more Fenderish vibe, the SE 6L6 version leans slightly more American flavor. If you want smooth, classy tones, the SE graduates with honors. If you want any kind of metal sound, the SE graduates with honors. If you want raunchy classic rock, or 80's hair metal, blues, jazz, or any flavor, the SE graduates with honors.

I simply can't think of another amp that offers it all without any compromise tonally. Even the XTC 20th requires some degree of compromise since the 6L6 cleans are so good, yet people either love the 20th red channel and yearn for the 101B blue channel, or the other way around. The Triptik might be a little too refined in a way. The CA100, PT100 has it all - immaculate cleans, warmth, crunch, blistering leads, etc..., yet in some way seems a bit generic. Keep in mind that I'm saying that in the most gracious way possible. By generic I mean kind of in the way in which some people have better personalities as others, but don't stand out as much... or something like that. Anyway... Friedman kills you with awesomeness, but either way you go may be wanting. For instance, the BE100 might not have the cleans you want, while the Naked might have the cleans but you prefer the BE100 overdrive, etc... The Dirty Shirley is absolutely fantastic, but single channel and not really going to give it up for clean headroom.

I'm being extremely picky here, but just to make the point that the Engl SE is the only amp that never leaves you wanting a single thing. The thing about Engl is that you are going to have to accept that you won't necessarily have the traditional hollow, woody sounding neck tone, or open and bright jangle of Fenders, etc... I have heard some vintage amp people say that Engl amps all have some bit of processed sound in them. That's just not true, but in their minds it is because they expect to hear the wood, trem springs, etc... However, if you're not stuck in the classic or vintage mindset, you will realize equally good tone. You get it all, clear bell-like tone... chimey high end, crunchy rhythm, saturated lead, slight bluesy breakup, transparent jazzy cleans, etc... the SE does it and brings the character of your guitar and pickups out. Moreover, it has the versatility and friendliness to pedals/FX than no classic range amp has.

These may not be the best choices for demos, but they catch my ear:

Lots of cool stuff in the first 2 min, then more of the same

6L6 version

Old guy starts kind of mellow, then shreds his ass off, then does some great sounding clean/cleanish stuff, then shreds to the end

skip intro of video and check out where he plays his band stuff
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

The Vengeance has a lot of control over the mids in both channels. Each channel has it's own mid shift on the Footswitch even! That means it has normal mids, but you can choose to let the footswitch scoop the mids or boost them, one or the other. I hate scooped mids on either channel, so I assigned the footswitch to only boost them. Other than that, all the controls are very useable, and I like the depth knob and 2nd assignable master volume. It gives you a lot of control.

I can see how trying an Egnater Vengeance in a store may leave some wondering if it's really a quality piece or not, mostly because the Vengeance cab has licensed Celestion G75's. When I bought it, all I could hear it through was a POS Line 6 cab. Once I brought it home and heard it with my good cabs, I realized it can hang with amps like Bogner, Soldano, ENGL, Diezel etc. I think it's one of the best amps Egnater makes.

I was amazed that it shipped with Tungsol preamp tubes and Ruby's best 6L6's.

Cool. I take it all the footswitch controls are also on the amp it's self?
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I played this the other day at a shop & turned it up pretty loud. I left thinking it was the nicest amp I'd heard in a long time.

http://www.prsguitars.com/archon/

I remember playing a PRS amp several years ago and not liking it at all. Maybe it was a lemon but the clean tone was very bland and the distortion channel was muddy as hell. Bad tubes maybe? I don't know but I shut it off and didn't look back. Maybe this is an improvement. I think there's one local shop that might have PRS amps.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

you own a great amp, but I always recommend the amp I own for "hard rock/old school metal category but can still be versatile enough for classic rock and blues and the like"

I own the Orange Thunderverb 50

I'll look into it. I've tried the Rockerverb MkII's pretty extensively and while they sound great and the reverb is fantastic, there's something about the gain channel I can't quite peg as being off to me, Maybe it's the way the gain jumps up drastically from the 6-8 range... like a HUGE increase in a small range. The Rockerverb falls in that 'close, but not quite' category for me. I'll keep the Thunderverb in mind. There's a good collection of Oranges at a local GC, I'll take one for a spin.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

I've been very happy with the Splawn Pro Mod I picked up last fall. Even when it's set for some monstrous gain, the distortion channel cleans up nicely, plus it's got a great clean channel with some nice spanky compression to it. But be forewarned, Splawns are big on mids, so if you go for a more scooped out tone, look elsewhere.

Here's a clip of me playing through mine (I apologize for the sloppy playing and editing). http://youtu.be/IBCZNc63fsI

You know, not 24 hours before I made this post I'd been playing around with a used Pro Mod that I found in a local shop. It was pretty beat up but they hadn't even tagged it yet so I don't know how much they were selling it for. It functioned fine but I don't think I was really gelling with it. I liked the JVM I played a lot more, actually.

Interestingly enough your speaker cab setup is exactly the same as mine, so that gave me a good frame of reference for the video. :D I think I may pass on that particular Splawn... a bit too dry and brash for my tastes.

I'm not looking for a scooped mid tone... mid-neutral at best. I never drop my mids below 5.
 
Re: Possibly looking for a new amp... suggestions?

Carvin Nomad/Bel Air? They're in the Vintage line. I'd like to say I had personal experience with them. 2 channels, Fendery clean and Marshally crunch. A lot of people say the dirty side sounds congested and get it modded to really open it up. Really thick reverb, lots of effects loop happiness. It's 4x EL84-powered so there's a lot of tube warmth going on. Apparently you can pull two for less power too.

Pretty familiar with Carvins... the Santa Ana shop is about a 20 minute drive from here.

Decent cleans on the Nomads and Bel Airs but they fell apart (not literally, tonally) when I tried to get the gain sound I wanted. I would go for a Peavey Classic 30 or 50 for that type of sound anyways.

FWIW I used to own a Legacy and I liked the amp a lot but after I blew it up I never could get it to function the way I wanted it to again. I'd toyed with the idea of getting a used one as a spare head.

Also... the guys at the Carvin shop that I go really recommend replacing the stock tubes with JJ's in all Carvins. I've tried it and I have to agree with them, Carvins DO sound better with JJ's.
 
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