Pot/Knob arrangements

[TRex]

I'm looking at a sweet guitar at my local shop, and it for me thinking of my controls

My current Les Paul has the standard 4 pot scheme, but the guitar I loved has a set of Master controls. What are the disadvantages of master controls besides the neck position?

I never got good at getting a good tome from the middle unless they where 1:1 ratio anyway on the volume, so would a master volume hurt me at all?

I can order the same type of guitar in a 3 pot version if I pay a little extra custom, but should I go with a extra tone pot or volume pot?

I know there is no real difinitive answer, but I would like some opinions.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

My 3-pot guitar (The Phoenix) is two tones and a master volume... which works great for me. I considered reversing it when I did a complete re-wire earlier this year, but decided that I cared more about being able to adjust tones per pickup rather than volume. As far as I'm concerned, a master volume is great. I also have a guitar with the LP-style 4 pots (Rachel), and another with just a master tone and volume (Lita)... and I still keep coming back to liking two tones and one volume over both of the other styles.

 

[DreX]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

It really depends on how you play the guitar live, and if you want to set the controls somewhere and count on the pickup being that way in the middle of a song or a set. If you think of it more of as a Tele, where you work the controls on the fly, then it's OK, but Tele controls are also a little easier to find without looking and reaching around than Gibson controls.

Lately I've been leaving my Les Pauls stock, for several reasons. 1) they aren't bad to begin with, not as bad as a Strat's stock layout, 2) HH guitars don't seem to benefit from exotic wiring as much IMO. A Les Paul's split/parallel tone is especially disappointing with most PAF range pickups. They seem to really sound best when everything is stock, whereas I feel that a stock Strat has all sorts of unmet potential in it's design; various caps, pickups that sound good in various modes, blending, EQ mods, etc.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

I play Les Pauls and 335s, but my main guitars are G&Ls Legacys. I'm used to guitars with three controls, four controls and single volume/tone controls. I really like the Legacy's global Passive Treble and Bass controls. It's a much better system for me than the standard Strat controls.

You'll often see guitars like Hamers or Gibson Explorers with V/V/T controls. In this case, I would probably modify this type of guitar to V/T/T or use the PTB scheme. For me, it's easier to work with a master volume, but you do lose the ability to vary the blend of the pickups. There are some delightful tone in the middle switch position of a Les Paul/335s.

The nightmare setup for me is the three-pickup LP, SG Custom and the Rickenbackers, where you have only a three-way switch and V/V/T/T controls. There's limited control, and it's difficult to explore the tonal potential of these guitars. The best wiring I've used on these is V/T/T/T, with a simple on/off switch for the middle pickup. It's still a compromise, but it is usable.

I hope this helps.

Bill

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

You'll often see guitars like Hamers or Gibson Explorers with V/V/T controls. In this case, I would probably modify this type of guitar to V/T/T or use the PTB scheme. For me, it's easier to work with a master volume, but you do lose the ability to vary the blend of the pickups. There are some delightful tone in the middle switch position of a Les Paul/335s.

The nightmare setup for me is the three-pickup LP, SG Custom and the Rickenbackers, where you have only a three-way switch and V/V/T/T controls. There's limited control, and it's difficult to explore the tonal potential of these guitars. The best wiring I've used on these is V/T/T/T, with a simple on/off switch for the middle pickup. It's still a compromise, but it is usable.

I take a different approach. On 3 pot guitars, I wire the tone to the bridge only. That makes the bridge V-T and the neck V. I never turn down the tone on a neck PU anyways, so I can easily give that up.

Agreed, a HHH with a 3-way toggle is a waste of potential: 6 coils and so few options. I'm not a fan of HHH, but the couple I have are wired to give me about 30 sounds, not counting blending PU's together. I wire the bridge with 2 push-pulls (V-T), one for coil split, one for phase. The neck and middle share a blend pot volume, and a push-pull tone for coil split. I can mix and match the coils individually and in all kinds of combination.

 

[ItsaBass]

Pot/Knob arrangements

I can't stand master tone controls on multi-pickup guitars. They make no sense to me. When would I ever want to apply the same amount of treble reduction to all the pickups? Never!

I like master volumes, though. When I go to adjust a volume knob, I want it to have the same effect regardless of which pickup I am using.

I can deal with guitars that have 2V/2T and two pickups. I don't necessarily mind separate volume controls, as long as there are also separate tone controls. I won't bother modding them. However, if a two pickup guitar comes V/V/T (as they invariably do when they have three pots), I will change it to V/T/T within the day.

On Strats, what I like best just happens to be exactly in line with how they used to be wired from the factory: 3-way switch, separate neck and middle tone controls, and no tone control for the bridge pickup. When I switch the bridge pick up, I do it because I wanted to sound like a bridge pick up: bright, aggressive, piercing, rough. I am far more likely to use a tone control on the warmer pick up positions, in order to accentuate what they're naturally good at.

With Teles, because of the master tone control, I have never really been a fan of any wiring scheme, though I do prefer the pre-modern wiring, which has no setting for parallel pickups, and gives you the neck pick up as a "dark" setting in the forward position. I much prefer Esquires. Switching one pick up between three different tone presets is far more useful to me then having to use the same tone control for two separate pickups.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

You could use concentric pots...

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

Just give me a volume knob and I'll be happy

View attachment 65862

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

Just give me a volume knob and I'll be happy

A minimalist. I'm a 4 knob guy.

 

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

I like 4 knob setups (V,V,T,T). I like to be able to control my neck pickup differently than I control my bridge pickup. And in the middle position, blending the two works well for my fingerpicking. One thing I've done recently is to roll down the neck tone all the way and play it through a fuzz pedal. Nick Valensi from the Strokes did that on 12:51, and it sounds like a classic analogue synth.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

A minimalist. I'm a 4 knob guy.

Does that make you a MAXimalist? [emoji6]


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

A minimalist. I'm a 4 knob guy.

That I am! lol

I like 4 knob setups (V,V,T,T). I like to be able to control my neck pickup differently than I control my bridge pickup. And in the middle position, blending the two works well for my fingerpicking. One thing I've done recently is to roll down the neck tone all the way and play it through a fuzz pedal. Nick Valensi from the Strokes did that on 12:51, and it sounds like a classic analogue synth.

As much as I would like to say I used tone knobs on the guitar I never do...all of my playing is wide open so no need to have them for me.

Does that make you a MAXimalist? [emoji6]


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

Ha! Well played

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

Does that make you a MAXimalist?

Sometimes. I have the Jimmy Page 4 push-pull wiring in some guitars. In others I have a push-pull or two. At the very least I wire the neck tone pot for spin-a-split.

As Johnny the Kid said, I like to be able to control my bridge and neck PU's differently. I wire my guitars for independent volume control, and along with being able to blend PU's together for more tone options, on stage I usually have the volume on the neck PU turned part way down for rhythm, and on '10' for the bridge, so I can flip the toggle and instantly get a boost for a solo.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

For HH guitars I only want V/V/T/T

There is magic in the middle position.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

For HH guitars I only want V/V/T/T

There is magic in the middle position.

Are you using dependent or independent volume controls?

 

[TRex]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

You could use concentric pots...

I also need cold splits, and out of phase control to get a kinda JP wiring going

I can't stand master tone controls on multi-pickup guitars. They make no sense to me. When would I ever want to apply the same amount of treble reduction to all the pickups? Never!

I like master volumes, though. When I go to adjust a volume knob, I want it to have the same effect regardless of which pickup I am using.

I can deal with guitars that have 2V/2T and two pickups. I don't necessarily mind separate volume controls, as long as there are also separate tone controls. I won't bother modding them. However, if a two pickup guitar comes V/V/T (as they invariably do when they have three pots), I will change it to V/T/T within the day.

On Strats, what I like best just happens to be exactly in line with how they used to be wired from the factory: 3-way switch, separate neck and middle tone controls, and no tone control for the bridge pickup. When I switch the bridge pick up, I do it because I wanted to sound like a bridge pick up: bright, aggressive, piercing, rough. I am far more likely to use a tone control on the warmer pick up positions, in order to accentuate what they're naturally good at.

With Teles, because of the master tone control, I have never really been a fan of any wiring scheme, though I do prefer the pre-modern wiring, which has no setting for parallel pickups, and gives you the neck pick up as a "dark" setting in the forward position. I much prefer Esquires. Switching one pick up between three different tone presets is far more useful to me then having to use the same tone control for two separate pickups.

I noticed I had to roll the tone down before every time I would use the Treble pup.

I take a different approach. On 3 pot guitars, I wire the tone to the bridge only. That makes the bridge V-T and the neck V. I never turn down the tone on a neck PU anyways, so I can easily give that up.

Agreed, a HHH with a 3-way toggle is a waste of potential: 6 coils and so few options. I'm not a fan of HHH, but the couple I have are wired to give me about 30 sounds, not counting blending PU's together. I wire the bridge with 2 push-pulls (V-T), one for coil split, one for phase. The neck and middle share a blend pot volume, and a push-pull tone for coil split. I can mix and match the coils individually and in all kinds of combination.

This is interesting, but I would want to try that on a secondary guitar first of course. Very cool idea

I play Les Pauls and 335s, but my main guitars are G&Ls Legacys. I'm used to guitars with three controls, four controls and single volume/tone controls. I really like the Legacy's global Passive Treble and Bass controls. It's a much better system for me than the standard Strat controls.

You'll often see guitars like Hamers or Gibson Explorers with V/V/T controls. In this case, I would probably modify this type of guitar to V/T/T or use the PTB scheme. For me, it's easier to work with a master volume, but you do lose the ability to vary the blend of the pickups. There are some delightful tone in the middle switch position of a Les Paul/335s.

The nightmare setup for me is the three-pickup LP, SG Custom and the Rickenbackers, where you have only a three-way switch and V/V/T/T controls. There's limited control, and it's difficult to explore the tonal potential of these guitars. The best wiring I've used on these is V/T/T/T, with a simple on/off switch for the middle pickup. It's still a compromise, but it is usable.

I hope this helps.

Bill

Yea, VTT sounds like the way to go so far.

It really depends on how you play the guitar live, and if you want to set the controls somewhere and count on the pickup being that way in the middle of a song or a set. If you think of it more of as a Tele, where you work the controls on the fly, then it's OK, but Tele controls are also a little easier to find without looking and reaching around than Gibson controls.

Lately I've been leaving my Les Pauls stock, for several reasons. 1) they aren't bad to begin with, not as bad as a Strat's stock layout, 2) HH guitars don't seem to benefit from exotic wiring as much IMO. A Les Paul's split/parallel tone is especially disappointing with most PAF range pickups. They seem to really sound best when everything is stock, whereas I feel that a stock Strat has all sorts of unmet potential in it's design; various caps, pickups that sound good in various modes, blending, EQ mods, etc.

I play using 1 p'up at a time in most shows. 80% of the time is the bridge for a more rock sound, and 19% neck for cleaner strummy stuff or blues.

My 3-pot guitar (The Phoenix) is two tones and a master volume... which works great for me. I considered reversing it when I did a complete re-wire earlier this year, but decided that I cared more about being able to adjust tones per pickup rather than volume. As far as I'm concerned, a master volume is great. I also have a guitar with the LP-style 4 pots (Rachel), and another with just a master tone and volume (Lita)... and I still keep coming back to liking two tones and one volume over both of the other styles.

Links arnt working on the app, but I'll give your guitars a look once I get home

Yea, after hearing you guys, I'm thinking VTT maybe the better option.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

Are you using dependent or independent volume controls?

I have no idea what you mean exactly.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

For HH guitars I only want V/V/T/T

There is magic in the middle position.

Are you using dependent or independent volume controls?

I have no idea what you mean exactly.

I'm actually interested too. Independent would mean that, in the middle position you can use the volume controls to blend the two pickups. Dependent (ie: stock wiring) would be that EITHER control affects BOTH pickups.


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[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

: party:

I usually like to have my pot before my knobs...

 

[DreX]

Re: Pot/Knob arrangements

I play using 1 p'up at a time in most shows. 80% of the time is the bridge for a more rock sound, and 19% neck for cleaner strummy stuff or blues.

IMO, if you like the bridge pickup, and use the neck for cleans, you can get a lot of versatility from a dual gang "spin a split", it will make both pickups variably single coil. With the neck, you can dial in better articulation on chord work by going towards a split tone, and on the bridge, you can trade in the creamy sustain associated with a series humbucker for something a little more thin and nasty, like a low wind Tele bridge.