power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

[PVFan]

Dr. Mavashi's mention of Furman in the cool bandmates thread reminded me of this question I've been meaning to ask for a while. But there seems to be so many, and some don't have voltage regulation. Tired of wondering if I'm hearing things or if my bass is actually dropping due to everyone on the local grid running their washers and dryers at the same time. If anyone uses one, will such a unit actually help, and what are some good bang-for-buck ones?

 

[aleclee]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

IME, voltage regulation gives you greater consistency of tone, particularly in tube amps. A variation of 5V on the mains can translate to 20V when it's stepped up for the tubes. In essence, it's changing the bias and circuit that feeds your tubes.

Personally, while I find voltage regulation to be quite useful I think "power conditioning" is overrated. While it's indispensable in lowering the noise floor in a recording environment, in most live situations you're probably not going to hear/care about the difference one makes. Throw in the fact that most so-called conditioners are really just glorified surge protectors and a quality voltage regulator looks like a bargain in comparison.

As for bang for the buck, my best advice would be to get a good one on the used market. I got a Furman AR15 for about 1/2 of what they cost new. While it might be a bit banged up, chances are that a used unit is perfectly functional and it'll definitely be a lot cheaper than buying new.

 

[PVFan]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Thanks Alec.

This will sound noobish, prolly cuz it is, but I wish I understood how voltage regulators work. I can see where they account for hiccups in voltage, but I don't see how they can compensate continuously for a low voltage (say 114 instead of 118) coming in from the wall outlet -- can they actually do that? My physics are rusty, but, something about the law of conservation of energy, can't get something from nothing, and so on.

ya know?

 

[J Moose]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

I can see where they account for hiccups in voltage, but I don't see how they can compensate continuously for a low voltage (say 114 instead of 118) coming in from the wall outlet -- can they actually do that?

Yes indeed... "real" power conditioners will do that... take low or high voltage and spit out an even 120 even if its taking 109 volts in. Thats accomplished through, among other things, massive toroidal transformers which is also why "real" power conditioners have significant weight! If you can lift the box with one hand its likely not doing much...

Something like a Furman PL8 is just an over glorified power strip... there's little value in those unless someone plugs your gear into a 220 volt line or the system takes a direct hit by lightning. Maybe...

Hate to say it, but value for the dollar the Monster power units are good... my 3500 has been great at cleaning up dirty power but it's NOT a "regulator" and for that you'll have to spend considerably more. At least a Furman AR1215 if not an IT20... Eqitech box... that sort of thing.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

great topic PV ....thanks.

I'm a little confused here by TMI. What I personally need is a decent unit for making my rig quieter. I am not concerned with voltage regulation (perhaps I should be, but I'm not). Does an effective conditioner exist in the floor strip style, or do I need a rack type unit?

 

[aleclee]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

great topic PV ....thanks.

I'm a little confused here by TMI. What I personally need is a decent unit for making my rig quieter. I am not concerned with voltage regulation (perhaps I should be, but I'm not). Does an effective conditioner exist in the floor strip style, or do I need a rack type unit?

What makes you think your problem is line noise vs. something else in your signal chain (ground loop or shielding)?

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

What makes you think your problem is line noise vs. something else in your signal chain (ground loop or shielding)?

Oh no ....... there's no question about noise in the chain and I'm sorting that out. I just want my rig as quiet as possible and want to explore every option.

 

[aleclee]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Oh no ....... there's no question about noise in the chain and I'm sorting that out. I just want my rig as quiet as possible and want to explore every option.

Unless you have severe issues with line noise at the places where you're playing, I suspect you'll find that the bang for the buck in power conditioning just isn't there.

 

[J Moose]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Unless you have severe issues with line noise at the places where you're playing, I suspect you'll find that the bang for the buck in power conditioning just isn't there.

Yes indeed... but what IS line noise?

Line noise can either come in from the wall or it can come from other pieces of gear.

Either way its electrical interference mucking with audio.

The monster units, or at least the two I've tried... the 3500 and the step below are really effective at removing severe line noise. Couple three years ago when I bought a new computer rig I had a random buzz coming into the mixing console that I traced to the spinning hard drive. It was causing problems even though the computer was on a UPS and isolated ground. After trying a few things the monster box was the most cost effective solution...

If you're playing in places where the AC is ultra shaky and you're on the same circuit as some neon signs or beer coolers then nothing can save you.

If you get an occasional click or pop from other things on the circuit like a refrigerator in the corner or someone plugging in a vacuum on the other side of the house, then the monster box... or other "real" line conditioner (NOT a pl8) will eliminate that sort of muck.

If you get some hum in the rig when box 'X' is plugged in, but no audio connections then the line conditioner will also eliminate that muck as well.

Most of them are rackmount... I've seen a few that aren't and even own one but it sure as hell isn't convenient to carry around. It's maybe 30 pounds and the size of a coffee pot. There's no handle either.

 

[NickCormier]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Theres also units like this, but I dunno if the voltage they supply would be enough to power a rack/guitar rig.. they are made for computers..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120391704608

 

[J Moose]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Theres also units like this, but I dunno if the voltage they supply would be enough to power a rack/guitar rig.. they are made for computers..

Voltage isn't the problem... plenty of that... but the type of conditioning isn't optimized for audio gear and the power tends to be fairly dirty. Most of 'em use switching power supplies which aren't great for audio use unless the rest of the unit was designed with those inherent shortcomings in mind.

 

[NickCormier]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

most I've researched has the proper EMI filtering and such, similar to any cheap rackmount Furman unit.. So I dont see how the power would be dirty in comparison to a furman PL-II or such.. Of course, it wont compete with the $500 power conditioner units.

 

[aleclee]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Yes indeed... but what IS line noise?

Line noise can either come in from the wall or it can come from other pieces of gear.

Either way its electrical interference mucking with audio.

Thing is, IME line noise don't account for most of the noise/hum found in a rig. More often than not, it's one of these instead:

1. Ground loops
2. Faulty grounding
3. Induced hum (e.g., neon lights)

Back to the original topic, if you're in a situation where there's significant line noise affecting your rig, you probably need regulation, too. Crappy power is probably lousy in more than one way.

 

[J Moose]

Re: power conditioners w/ voltage regulation - which?

Thing is, IME line noise don't account for most of the noise/hum found in a rig.

Truth!

I've rewired plenty of complex and not-so-complex rigs for people and usually 80% (if not better) of the noise is coming from sloppy wiring, ill-conceived layouts, improper gain staging between pieces... the latter being quite huge when someones trying to use stompboxes and rack units together.

Nick - Most of the cheap "computer" boxes disconnect you completely from the wall, filter the power and spit it back out on the other side of filtration. You get what you pay for... and sometimes, not even that much.