Power conditioners

[Warheart]

I'm thinking about picking up a Furman PL-Plus DMC power conditioner.
I currently have one of their M-8L models, which is the low end merit series. I'm planning on doing some recording soon so I'd like to have good clean power.

Do you guys think it would make a difference by upgrading to one with these features:

• SMP (Series Multi-Stage Protection) with EVS (Extreme Voltage Shutdown) • LiFT (Linear Filtering Technology) with zero ground contamination • Switchable/Dimmable true RMS current and laboratory precise digital voltage meter • Two Smooth Track retractable, long-life, low-heat, front panel LED lights with dimmer-power switch for rack illumination • BNC connector on the rear panel accepts any standard (12VAC 0.5 amp) gooseneck lamp to illuminate the rear of your rack
(Furman GN-I and GN-LED accessory gooseneck lamps are best for this application) • Eight rear panel AC outlets, three with wide spacing to accommodate large AC transformer plugs (wall warts) • One front panel convenience outlet • 15A (1800 watt) capacity with 15A circuit breaker

Or is it still just a glorified power bar? Is it worth the money?

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Power conditioners

Or is it still just a glorified power bar? Is it worth the money?

Yes, err, no, err, it depends.

If you gig with your gear, it is worth it. It is primarily preotection and some line filtering. If you go from crappy bar to crappy bar, power is always suspect. They are a great options to put in front of your gear.

If you are just going to record, you won't see much benefit. You will have the option to try a different outlet or two if you have some minor noise issues.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Power conditioners

I was just thinking about this earlier, so I'm glad the OP posted up a question about them and saved me some trouble.

I won't be doing any gigging, or any recording for awhile, but the wiring in my house is kind of old. I was wondering if there would be any benefit from using a power conditioner over a higher end power strip?

 

[Binnerscot]

Re: Power conditioners

I was just thinking about this earlier, so I'm glad the OP posted up a question about them and saved me some trouble.

I won't be doing any gigging, or any recording for awhile, but the wiring in my house is kind of old. I was wondering if there would be any benefit from using a power conditioner over a higher end power strip?

A true power conditioner will regulate the line voltage to maintain it within a certain range...they are very good for noise, protection, and getting consistant performance out of tube gear. They are the expensive ones.

Anything less is a fancy power strip with cool features, rack friendly, and some have lights, but provide decent protection from power spikes.

ART makes some decent, inexpensive rack power distro with lights and perform well for protection. I don't think they make one the regulates voltage

Furman makes some line regulators in the more expensive models.

 

[Mr 9finger]

Re: Power conditioners

Thanks for the info! I'll definitely look into them further!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Power conditioners

I'd be curious about what kind of improvement you see.

 

[Warheart]

Re: Power conditioners

Well, the one I have now says it has AC noise filtering, while the upgraded one has LifT, Linear filtering technology. No idea, I'm starting to get the feeling unless I'm dishing out more than $400, they're just power bars.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Power conditioners

In general, this is cork sniffing, IMHO.

The power supply in your pc/amp/coffeemaker or whatever you want it for makes DC from AC anyway, and it flattens out the sine waves. You shouldn't need a "power conditioner" unless your power supply is whack in which case you should fix that.

If your power is actually unstable you should get a so-call "online" UPS system like they use for computers. Or better, fix the house wiring.

What problem specifically are you trying to fix?

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Power conditioners

Are you having issues with your rig and other gear at the moment? I'll bet the answer is no. I'm not saying that "power conditioning" has no merits but unless your wiring is crap and the area filled with EM interference you probably don't need it.

I'll wager 10 to 1 odds that any money spent on power conditioning would be better spent on a better microphone. The first key to great recordings is having something great to record in the first place. So unless you get plagued with hums and buzz form your AC don't sweat it.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Power conditioners

This has come up several times before, and I wish I could remember who, but there is a forum bro that swears you can a very inepensive power strip that actually reduces line noise ... from Walmart.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Power conditioners

Yeah the one that doesn't have any wires inside. No noise

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Power conditioners

Yeah the one that doesn't have any wires inside. No noise

I don't even remember the brand, but he said it made his pedal board and amp quieter.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Power conditioners

In general, this is cork sniffing, IMHO.

The power supply in your pc/amp/coffeemaker or whatever you want it for makes DC from AC anyway, and it flattens out the sine waves. You shouldn't need a "power conditioner" unless your power supply is whack in which case you should fix that.

If your power is actually unstable you should get a so-call "online" UPS system like they use for computers.

Real power conditioning is NOT "cork sniffing" and can actually make a substantial difference when the gear sees steady, clean power. Ever play at a place where the voltage is low, say 100 and the amp is browning out? Some digital gear gets really unhappy too... I've had stuff like Eventide's actually shut down on remote gigs while other things will keep rolling.

Truth be told most of the inexpensive computer UPS systems are terrible for audio and actually introduce a lot of noise!!! They disconnect from wall current and the juice comes off a "buffer" from the battery output... the noise is from the switching power supply which is alternating back and forth thousands of times a second.

Switching power supplies are terrible for audio... there are "audio grade" UPS systems out there but they cost A LOT of money, going into the thousands. Start talking about real "power conditioning" and we're looking at things like this;

http://www.superiorelectric.com/STABILINE-WHR.htm

 

[uOpt]

Re: Power conditioners

Uh. So first of all the online UPS that always feed off the battery and are always disconnected from the wall outlet are the good kind, not the bad kind.

You have switching power supplies in all kinds of devices in a studio now, just for starters all notebook and desktop computers. If this is causing noise (via the air, not the power line) then you need to improve the shielding of your gear.

They can only introduce noise via the power line if the power supply in your audio device is deficient in the first place. If the noise you hear isn't through the power line but introduced through the air then you need to shield your equipment properly. With the exception of single coil pickups there isn't any piece of gear that has an excuse to pick up electromagnetic or electrostatic interference on a large scale.

Also, the cheap power conditioners we talk about here do not up voltage in case you have 100 instead of 115V arrive.

At the end you have to take into account that the power supply in your piece of equipment is the one that converts to DC and flattens the sine wave.

 

[Despair]

Re: Power conditioners

An awful lot of guitar gear does not convert to DC. A lot of popular (particularly vintage) tube amps cut corners there. Or they only convert to DC for the preamp or the power tubes, not both.

Then there's the issue of power quality. Midrange and lower computer UPSes in particular have a lot of nasty properties, if you check the manual most of them specify NOT to use them with audio gear, as they can actually cause damage as well as make them sound bad. Many put out a square or triangle wave rather than sine, with dramatic affect on amount of power and ability to filter for analog devices in particular.

Truly good quality DC conversion is awful rare, because it costs more. Plus it's something a lot of guitar gear designers are totally ignorant about.

 

[Hellion]

Re: Power conditioners

I use power conditioners, but I gotta tell ya that I don't hear a lot of difference between using them or not, if the house power supply is intact. They've never been able to kill noise with me (that requires other options), and I use them more like a power strip.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Power conditioners

You have switching power supplies in all kinds of devices in a studio now, just for starters all notebook and desktop computers. If this is causing noise (via the air, not the power line) then you need to improve the shielding of your gear.

They can only introduce noise via the power line if the power supply in your audio device is deficient in the first place.

Yes switching power supplies are everywhere these days... that's why real production environments like studios and sound stages have always been built with real power distribution to keep everything clean. Always but always there's several 20 amp circuits dedicated to different things... 1 for outboard gear, one for computers, one for the console & recorders, one for lighting, another for "dirty power" like people who need to plug in their laptops or kegerator, another for performance gear like amps & keyboards and its all tied together in a star ground.

Like Despair said in a slightly more technical way, the quality of power from the cheap UPS is terrible for audio purposes. I haven't heard of gear burning out but it certainly doesn't sound good and creates more problems then are prevented.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Power conditioners

 

[uOpt]

Re: Power conditioners

Yes switching power supplies are everywhere these days... that's why real production environments like studios and sound stages have always been built with real power distribution to keep everything clean. Always but always there's several 20 amp circuits dedicated to different things... 1 for outboard gear, one for computers, one for the console & recorders, one for lighting, another for "dirty power" like people who need to plug in their laptops or kegerator, another for performance gear like amps & keyboards and its all tied together in a star ground.

Like Despair said in a slightly more technical way, the quality of power from the cheap UPS is terrible for audio purposes. I haven't heard of gear burning out but it certainly doesn't sound good and creates more problems then are prevented.

I have to point out again that I never argued for using cheap computer UPSes.

I don't think we have too much of a disagreement anywhere here. I would still be curious what power conditioner specially you recommend.

And just separating things on different fuses does absolutely nothing. As long as the fuse doesn't blow it's as good as everything on the same wire.

 

[Despair]

Re: Power conditioners

I haven't actually researched UPSes in a long time. PSNH finally fixed the power quality out here, though we still get winter outages...

But I have personal experience with a range of guitar gear having all kinds of odd problems from low or high power conditions. My favorite was the Real Tube 2, which had a stunningly anemic low power preamp, yet could easily take a half hour to warm up. Had radically more headroom and different tone control behavior once it warmed up. Really awesome was how a short dip in power would have it needing a couple minutes to warm up again... Was actually a great unit, but I couldn't imagine using it live, or outside a home studio.

The least debatable benefit of a decent power conditioner/UPS is the guarantee. Power-related issues are unlikely to be present everywhere you play, but not having to worry about catastrophe is more important than not having to worry about bad sound.