Preserve string energy or resonate body?

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The electric guitar generates sound as metal strings vibrate to magnetically affect a pick-up.

Some say that for sustain, as much energy as possible should be retained within the string. Thus, they recommend hard saddle and nut materials that block vibrations from travelling to the body of the guitar. Others say that the wood should "resonate" the string.

These cannot both be true. Which one is it? I'm inclined to go with the first one. However, the resonating thing could influence tone, i guess.

Discuss.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I can't answer your question, but I would like to warn you that every person that attempts to answer your question will be basing their responses off of "evidence" that has been cherry picked to agree with opinions that have been deeply ingrained in them.

It is true that with more sustain you will get less resonance and visa versa, that's easy to prove. But beyond that, who knows? We can't even manage to agree upon if there is a difference, let alone how big it is or even why it occurs.

All I'm saying is, good luck.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I think the whole thing resonates. I don't see why the hardware would resonate at the expense of the guitar.
 
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Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

If you dampen energy to stop is transferring.....you kill the energy source which is what you want to preserve.

The whole thing vibrates.....you can feel it of course. But the string would not have so much sustain if it was attached to something with very little mass. Or indeed if it were attached to something perfectly rigid that didn't vibrate at all.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I can't answer your question, but I would like to warn you that every person that attempts to answer your question will be basing their responses off of "evidence" that has been cherry picked to agree with opinions that have been deeply ingrained in them..
This is true.....you have indeed cherry picked evidence to say that there is no absolute answer. When physics derived by objective scientists studying data already has an answer.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

This is true.....you have indeed cherry picked evidence to say that there is no absolute answer. When physics derived by objective scientists studying data already has an answer.

If science already has the answer, WTF are you doing here starting **** all over again?
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

Trying to educate. Really hard to get any message across with grumpy old gits swearing all the time don't you reckon
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

If you dampen energy to stop is transferring.....you kill the energy source which is what you want to preserve.

The whole thing vibrates.....you can feel it of course. But the string would not have so much sustain if it was attached to something with very little mass. Or indeed if it were attached to something perfectly rigid that didn't vibrate at all.

All you did was repeat the facts the OP already presented in the original post in fancy speak. He's asking is it more important for the guitar to resonate as much as possible, (because a more resonant guitar is often arbitrarily declared superior to a less resonant one, regardless of the quality of the electronics) or have as little resonance as possible (because less resonance translates to less energy lost from the string, which reduces sustain)

My opinion is "does it matter?" And I have chosen this opiniom from the cherry picked evidence that ~100% of these threads turn to pointless and passive aggressive ad hominim debates, like this one has already.

And where are these scientists you speak of? And where is this data they spend so much time studying? That would have been certainly useful 100 threads ago on this exact same topic.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

IMO softer woods result in a weaker fundamental-tone with more overtones, and with harder wood species it's the opposite.
Better or worse? Your call.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

Thank you for these helpful answers as well as a few unhelpful but entertaining ones
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I have done some actual thinking on this now, and come to think of it, I think that resonance comes more from the body (and frankly, I think resonance is a myth, a piece of wood can have a good fundamental tone regardless of how much it vibrates) and sustain comes more from the neck.

This is pure conjecture, but to me it makes sense that the more the neck vibrates the more it absorbs the energy of the string, as well as darkening the tone of the guitar. That's why harder woods like maple are brighter than weaker woods like basswood. This might also attribute to the weaker fundamental tones like Dave mentioned.

Again, more conjecture, but it also makes sense to me that the wood of the body will have less of an affect on the sustain of the wood because while the neck is a thin piece of wood that sort of hangs, the body is not. I don't know if you've ever made a neck-through guitar, but I made one a long time back and did an experiment with it. I built it a bit out of order, completing every other part of the guitar before I glued the body wings on. The difference between the accoustic tone was night and day to my ears, and the sustain was much longer without the wings. When I plugged it in however, the differences with and without the wings were so small I might have been forcing myself to hear differences that weren't there. When I timed the sustain, there wasn't much difference there either.

But since we are somewhat talking about tonewood, I must empasize, YMMV.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I like sustain.

I like my guitars to "sustain for days", as the kids say. I tried to mod a Tele to make an Esquire with a sustainer tucked away under the pickguard and have it wired so that it was always on.

It didn't work out the way I hoped, the sustainer was too far from the strings. But it would have been a neat party trick if it had.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

Some say that for sustain, as much energy as possible should be retained within the string. Thus, they recommend hard saddle and nut materials that block vibrations from travelling to the body of the guitar. Others say that the wood should "resonate" the string.

I think part of this theory is flawed: hard materials do not "block" vibrations, they actually transfer it better than soft materials. Now if a piece were sufficiently massive, it would require more energy to make it vibrate, but for something like a saddle I don't think that's relevant. Softer materials damp vibration, and if you were to make saddles and a nut out of soft rubber, the guitar body would hardly resonate at all. Of course, the sustain would be terrible anyway because much of the vibration would be absorbed.

I think the wood/sustain issue comes down to absorption/resonance in the tonewood, and transfer of vibration from strings to body to air. I'm not weighing in on the tonewood debate because a) that wasn't the original intent of the thread, and b) it's a recipe for conflict between opposing strongly-held opinions.

As for sustain, I differentiate between two kinds: basic inherent sustain, and "live" sustain when the guitar is played with an amp. For inherent sustain, physics dictates that the less loss, the longer the sustain. This is why some argue that heavy guitars and rigid necks deliver better sustain, and that the less loss of vibration to the hardware & body, the better. They have a point, as far as unplugged guitar in isolation goes.

But when you plug into a good amp and play it loud, things are not that simple. The guitar becomes part of a dynamic, interactive system linking the player, the amp and the soundspace. This is where liveliness comes into play. My opinion is that lighter guitars which sound louder unplugged than their siblings generally tend to perform better under these circumstances. My thinking on this is that better transfer of sound vibrations from string to body to air also works in reverse, giving better transfer of ambient sound to body to strings, resulting in a guitar that comes alive at volume. (I know there are exceptions to the lighter/louder factor- I have a few heavy axes that sing well at volume too, but in general, IMO louder unplugged usually translates to livelier at battle volume.)

I also feel that the neck is more important than many recognize, in terms of both tone and sustain, though certainly the body is a factor too. As for personal preference, I like guitars that shiver when you tap the headstock; these tend to feel better in my hands when played and often turn out to be the ones that really come alive when flown at volume. I offer that only as my preference and my opinion, not as objective fact.
 
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Preserve string energy or resonate body?

The glue must be tested for maximum transference, so be sure to test your glue first. Sniff sniff.

Also, if your guitar is dead sounding just turn up your amp and it will vibrate the strings for you.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

Rigid materials and construction provide more sustain and of course less "resonance" of the whole system.
 
Re: Preserve string energy or resonate body?

I have done some actual thinking on this now, and come to think of it, I think that resonance comes more from the body (and frankly, I think resonance is a myth, a piece of wood can have a good fundamental tone regardless of how much it vibrates) and sustain comes more from the neck.

This is pure conjecture, but to me it makes sense that the more the neck vibrates the more it absorbs the energy of the string, as well as darkening the tone of the guitar. That's why harder woods like maple are brighter than weaker woods like basswood. This might also attribute to the weaker fundamental tones like Dave mentioned.

Again, more conjecture, but it also makes sense to me that the wood of the body will have less of an affect on the sustain of the wood because while the neck is a thin piece of wood that sort of hangs, the body is not. I don't know if you've ever made a neck-through guitar, but I made one a long time back and did an experiment with it. I built it a bit out of order, completing every other part of the guitar before I glued the body wings on. The difference between the accoustic tone was night and day to my ears, and the sustain was much longer without the wings. When I plugged it in however, the differences with and without the wings were so small I might have been forcing myself to hear differences that weren't there. When I timed the sustain, there wasn't much difference there either.

But since we are somewhat talking about tonewood, I must empasize, YMMV.

+1,
but I had a case with my 7-string, the one that beaubrummels had been predicting of ending up sawdust, (but it got better than anything AANJ instead), where the body/bridge played a role in sustain. With the trem bar screwed all the way firm and pointing to the right, sustain is not so good in 24th fret. With the bar pointing left, I get about +1 sec (4 secs total), which is a great improvement at this spot.
All in all, its a whole system and the whole system must be taken into account, together. I dont think you can isolate parts and subsystems.
 
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