Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

[Lewguitar]

Huge improvement in tone. Mind blowing actually.

My buddy AJ traded his Sovtek to Trevorus for his Vox Night Train.

The Night Train has an 8 ohm output and 16 ohm output so I put together a speaker cab for AJ with two Italian made Jensen C10Q's wired in series for 16 ohms.

I wasn't prepared for how great it sounded through the two 10" cab...much stronger than through my 8 ohm Matchless cab that has a Celestion G1265.

We ABed the two cabs for a while until I had to give in: the cab with the two Italian Jensens simply sounded better with the Night Train.

Volume was equivalent but the tone was much clearer and stronger. Made me wonder what tonal change simply going from two speakers in 8 ohms in parallel, to 16 ohms in series makes.

Than we opened up the Night Train and pulled the two Sovtek 12ax7's and replaced them with two new old stock GE's made in the USA 40 years or 50 years ago.

Another mind blowing improvement in tone! Much fuller and thicker. The thin, somewhat steely or reedy quality I'd been hearing from the Night Train completely disappeared.

Sounds like a different amp. Just an amazing improvement.

I'd been saying how much I liked the Night Train but that I couldn't gig with it. Just wasn't loud and clear enough, and I was under the impression that it was almost all about dirty overdrive tones.

Lots of fun but not an amp I could gig with or record with.

With the GE's it's a different amp.

If you own a Night Train, you might want to search around for a pair of NOS GE 12ax7's and see for yourself.

You can find them on Ebay or from tube venders.

I didn't even need to try it with tubes from my stash of RCA long plate 12ax7's, which are my personal favorites. I wasn't willing to give any of those up anyway.

Didn't mind parting with a couple of GE's though, and the GE's made a HUGE, HUGE improvement.

Next time we'll try some of my NOS GE EL84's.

 

[STRATDELUXER97]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Very cool Lew...I find I love using NOS 12AX7 RCAs in alot of my own gear also..

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Those are my faves John I use the RCA's in all of my old Fenders. Don't have that many amps anymore, but those I was able to keep, get the RCA's.

 

[lemonman]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Thanks for the heads-up! I got mine the other day and having been having a ball with it. I do have some various NOS 12ax7s around I will try, maybe after the honeymoon period is over. I've been thinking of trying a 5751 in it, to give the gain section a little more headroom; with PAFs or P90s it's starting to get pretty good breakup around 10:30-11:00. I'd like a little more headroom to play with.

Don't have any matched NOS EL84s, I'm wondering what would be a good, reasonable upgrade- JJs, EHs, TADs? I've heard what they do in other circuits, not sure how differently they'll respond here.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Can't speak for anything other the 50 year old GE's we put in. But like I said, the GE's made a huge improvement. Not a small improvement...HUGE!

When it comes to NOS USA 12ax7's, my faves are the RCA and GE tubes. Have some Tung Sols too.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

The Night Train is one of the best platforms for tube swapping and testing that I know.
It takes really nothing to swap tubes and, the change in character is automatically appreciated.
I am running it with the Vox' paired cab: the NT112 that mounts some kind of custom Celestion (probably, between V30's and greenbacks, tone-wise). And this little and light cab does a perfect job, once you start upgrading the tubes.

Not easy to source real NOS tubes for me but, from the tests I did of the new production tubes, I have my preferred combinations.

Firstly, if you own a Night Train, inmediatelly swap those Sovtek 12AX7-WA tubes with anything else, even the (hated) JJ ECC83S tubes will be an improvement there and, just the cheap and reliable EH 12AX7 will improve the sound a lot.
Sovtek's WA are one of the worst sounding tubes produced nowadays but, most makers load them because of their low noise and microphonics levels, among that they are affordable and have stable production under stable specifications. But, they don't deliver a good sound.

Second, the Sovtek EL84's that it's mounting are nice. They have a plain EQ and an smooth voice BUT, they lack dimensionality. Most of other production tubes can do a better job there. Inmediatelly after swapping those Sovteks, the notes will start to jump out of the speaker.

Probably, Lew, you are going more for an American sound, due that you are playing it thru a Jensen loaded cab (or cabs) and you are favoring GE tubes.
I bet the new Svetlana's can sound good in that case (never as good, anyway).

But, to other people favoring the British sound, Celestions are the way to go and, more mullard-like tubes. I am more in the British side.

IMHO, from all new production tubes I've been testing in this amp, I prefer the following:

V1: Mullard 12AX7 reissue - da bomb
V2: NOS JAN 5751, Sovtek 12AX7-LPS or, even one more Mullard 12AX7 ri.

Power tubes: Mullard EL84 reissue - da bomb

But, I thrown a NOS RFT tube in V1 latelly and, if the Mullard 12AX7 ri was incredible good sounding, a NOS is always an step over. I don't know how they can bring just a tad more of definition (because the Mullard RI is good enough, second to nothing) but, they do!.

Probably, a good NOS 12AT7 would work very well in V2 too (something that I am still pending on test).

JJ EL84s give a lot of guts to the sound and make the amp to sound really loud but, they are one step down related to dimensionality compared to the Mullards and I don't like their distortion grain when cranked hard, they sound very compressed and somewhat like "fried electrons". They are good while in clean, anyway.

TAD EL84 are a bit less loud than JJ, similar EQ and similar 3D representation (always a couple of steps under the Mullard RI) but, I like them more when cranked hard.

The new production tube closer to the real EL84 sound I've heard is the EH EL84 tone-wise but, it seems to have a negative-dimensionality. The sound seems to come from the back of the cab, instead of jumping out of the front. Rare case.

Probably, the best sounding EL84 of new production that I know is the Genelec Gold Lion EL84. That tube is very similar to the Mullard RI but, it has a tad more definition and a wider 3D representation. The drawback is that they are so expensive as NOS EL84s and that they are weak as a pussy, they don't last more than few hours in a cathode-biased amp, like the NT.

To me, a couple of Mullard 12AX7 reissues in the preamp and a couple of Mullard EL84s reissues in the power amp, it's good enough to remove the blanket out of this little amp and begin to appreciate the good work that Tony Bruno did with its design.

But, for sure, NOS tubes have always something more to deliver!.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Very informative! Thanks!

We weren't going for a British or American tone...just a real good tone.

I'm a Celestion nut! I've been playing through Celestions since at least 1970. But I do like vintage 50's and 60's USA made Jensens as well.

I just happened to have the two Jensen made in Italy C10Q's. They're not Chicago made Jensens, they're just two Jensens that Tom from Magic Parts/Ruby Tubes sent me years ago to test and give my impressions of when they first came out.

I liked them then, but I love them now with AJ's Night Train.

I do wonder if wiring them for 16 ohms made THAT much of a difference. I've had them for a long time and have always liked them but with this Vox Night Train I LOVE them.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

It's incredible how good can this litte amp sound with just a bit of tube swapping!.
The perfect sound is always on the ear of the player but, it has a lot of room for improvement and allows you to go where you wanted.

Not to talk about its amazing transportability. With the paired cab, I was able to move everything together in a single trip: guitar on the shoulder, head hunging from the neck (practical bag there!), pedalboard in one hand and the cab in the other.
No other amp made it so easy to move all your gear together.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

I wonder how long they'll last? The Night Train I mean.

I have an old Fender Super from 1951!

But it seems like I have to buy a new stereo receiver about every 10 or 15 years. And a new cordless phone and answering machine even more often.

Wonder how long the Night Train will last?

 

[hermetico]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

I wonder how long they'll last? The Night Train I mean.

I have an old Fender Super from 1951!

But it seems like I have to buy a new stereo receiver about every 10 or 15 years. And a new cordless phone and answering machine even more often.

Wonder how long the Night Train will last?

Good point!.
I bet the thing that can go wrong are cheap electronics components inside, weak electrolitic chinesse caps are very prone to fail.
But, at least, it's cheap enough to buy one more, new brand.
I saw a post in the forum that says that they are offering the NT head for 200$!!!!.
I wonder if it makes any sense to get a couple and store them as spare parts for a future. You just move your tubes from the crashed one to one of the spares and you are done!.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Good point!.
I bet the thing that can go wrong are cheap electronics components inside, weak electrolitic chinesse caps are very prone to fail.
But, at least, it's cheap enough to buy one more, new brand.
I saw a post in the forum that says that they are offering the NT head for 200$!!!!.
I wonder if it makes any sense to get a couple and store them as spare parts for a future. You just move your tubes from the crashed one to one of the spares and you are done!.

It's a noisy little lunch box though! I've not had many new high gain amps like this to play with so I don't know how it compares to others.

Takes pedals well. AJ has a Power Screamer (like a modded Tube Screamer I guess) and I've been trying it with my KoT and Lazarus's Wampler Euphoria.

The Wampler sounds better than the KoT through the Night Train. AJ and I both thought so.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

It's a noisy little lunch box though! I've not had many new high gain amps like this to play with so I don't know how it compares to others.

Takes pedals well. AJ has a Power Screamer (like a modded Tube Screamer I guess) and I've been trying it with my KoT and Lazarus's Wampler Euphoria.

The Wampler sounds better than the KoT through the Night Train. AJ and I both thought so.

It takes really well any pedal, yes, I agree. Even in-front reverbs, delays or modulation effects. A curious thing is that I am not missing a reverb there, neither a FX loop.
The Euphoria seems to work good in any amp I tried it. No experience with the KoT but, if it sounds at the same level of the red dot sun face... I have to!.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

I do like a little reverb. Or delay. Just a little...not a lot. Most guys use to much for my tastes.

When I had the Night Train at home with me, I was using my Verbzilla and liking it but when I switched to using my Memory Man I liked that even better.

AJ describes the Memory Man as adding a "spongey roundness" to the tone. Not sure if spongey is a real word, but it's a decent description. I think he means elastic.

AJ's been using a Boss RV-3 reverb pedal that I gave him. Sounds pretty good. A little artificial, but better than nothing.

 

[hermetico]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

I do like a little reverb. Or delay. Just a little...not a lot. Most guys use to much for my tastes.

When I had the Night Train at home with me, I was using my Verbzilla and liking it but when I switched to using my Memory Man I liked that even better.

AJ describes the Memory Man as adding a "spongey roundness" to the tone. Not sure if spongey is a real word, but it's a decent description. I think he means elastic.

AJ's been using a Boss RV-3 reverb pedal that I gave him. Sounds pretty good. A little artificial, but better than nothing.

Yup. The tandem Xotic EP into Wampler Faux Echo Tape is some sort of Echoplex stuff, and it adds dimension to the NT, but, still not missing any reverb, even that the Line6 Verbzilla and the TC Electronics Hall of Fame worked really good there.
Seriously, you need to try a Xotic EP booster with the NT, to go even more excited with the sound!. I fully recommend it.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Yup. The tandem Xotic EP into Wampler Faux Echo Tape is some sort of Echoplex stuff, and it adds dimension to the NT, but, still not missing any reverb, even that the Line6 Verbzilla and the TC Electronics Hall of Fame worked really good there.
Seriously, you need to try a Xotic EP booster with the NT, to go even more excited with the sound!. I fully recommend it.

I don't have much spare cash these days, so I'm thinking of making one.

Been interested in it ever since I saw that Nashville virtuoso, Brent Mason, was using one. There are kits for making your own EP Booster online.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

That sucks I bought a NOS GE 12ax7 that ended up making the night train brighter than before! It was very glassy, like opening a big can of ice pick. It wasn't microphonic though. What could have been wrong with that tube? Since then the only thing I've had that sounds like that in any other amp is a GE 12AT7.

Anyways I liked that amp and it was great for a early stones beatles who type of thing, but i was in a huge hurry to swap that GE out. I had good results with other old stock tubes.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

That sucks I bought a NOS GE 12ax7 that ended up making the night train brighter than before! It was very glassy, like opening a big can of ice pick. It wasn't microphonic though. What could have been wrong with that tube? Since then the only thing I've had that sounds like that in any other amp is a GE 12AT7.

Anyways I liked that amp and it was great for a early stones beatles who type of thing, but i was in a huge hurry to swap that GE out. I had good results with other old stock tubes.

Had exactly the opposite experience. I replaced both tubes though. Not just one.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Had exactly the opposite experience. I replaced both tubes though. Not just one.

I had only done v1.

I remember when I bought the GE and returned it, the guy said he totally knew what I was talking about, he thought they were bright too.

All this talk about night trains, old stock tubes, and the latest vox rebates are giving me gas. Crap... what's my checkbook look like this month??? :naughty:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

Might have been a batch of bright tubes with shorter than normal plates or something Fuse. The other thing is that they could be tubes from another manufacturer with GE's logo printed on them. That happened with old tubes. The different companies in America would sometimes supply tubes for each other. I dunno!

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Put NOS GE 12ax7's in the Vox Night Train: WOW!!!

yep. I think that one did have short plates. Well NOS can be a bit of a crap shoot but exchange polices exist for a reason!