Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
- Thread starter ruger9
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Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
I didn't know you could just "drop a line" to the CS. I mean, I know they take orders, but I did not know if they would be receptive to tech questions about a guitar built almost 20 years ago... or if the same guy who built the guitar is even there
I didn't know you could just "drop a line" to the CS. I mean, I know they take orders, but I did not know if they would be receptive to tech questions about a guitar built almost 20 years ago... or if the same guy who built the guitar is even there
VinceT
New member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Worth a try, they have a contact link on their page.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Worth a try, they have a contact link on their page.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
I see a contact link for Fender, but not the Custom Shop.... maybe just contact Fender and see if they'll try to find out for me, I doubt it, but no harm in trying.
I see a contact link for Fender, but not the Custom Shop.... maybe just contact Fender and see if they'll try to find out for me, I doubt it, but no harm in trying.
EDX
New member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
it's the interaction of the L500 pickups and a normal tone control with maybe a 22 cap
how do i know? my v has a dimebucker on the bridge, on the tone pot i have a pair of .047uf caps on series so they sum .0235uf and when i roll it all the way to 0 i get a warm middy fuzzyness with the correct kind of overdrive on a distorted amp it just translates as a middy and wet sounding fuzz like dist
it's the interaction of the L500 pickups and a normal tone control with maybe a 22 cap
how do i know? my v has a dimebucker on the bridge, on the tone pot i have a pair of .047uf caps on series so they sum .0235uf and when i roll it all the way to 0 i get a warm middy fuzzyness with the correct kind of overdrive on a distorted amp it just translates as a middy and wet sounding fuzz like dist
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
During a rehearsal, yesterday, I've took my axe with Bill Lawrence pickups (Bill&Becky L500 neck, Vintage L500 bridge built in 1979 which is actually like a modern XL500, Q filter on a push pull tone pot also fitted with a regular 22n cap). I've enabled a TS808 and plugged it in one of my tube amps whose specs are vaguely similar to a Deluxe Reverb. I've tweaked the pots. What I"ve heard during this quick attempt wasn't the tone evoked above, to my ears.
I'm not saying that it's not possible: I'm just explaining that it didn't work during the few minutes that I could spend in this experiment.
Without denying that Johnny Lang might use a regular tone pot with a simple underrated 0.022µ cap, I wouldn't be surprised if a tech has put in his guitar a "custom" tone circuit: I've mounted myself dozens of custom designed and custom built tone pots these last decades. All my own guitars include home designed tone pots with caps and/or inductors of various values, each being especially fine tuned for the guitar and its pickups. I guess I'm not the only old geek to do such things - LOL.
BTW, another thing floating in my old memories is that Pete Willis (Def Leppard) had put a low value cap in his Hamer to obtain a cocked wah tone... and low value caps are also a recipe applied by another famous pickup maker in some of his harnesses but it's another story.
Enough said. I wish the OP to find an answer weither this answer involves what I mention or not.
And I wish you all a nice day.
During a rehearsal, yesterday, I've took my axe with Bill Lawrence pickups (Bill&Becky L500 neck, Vintage L500 bridge built in 1979 which is actually like a modern XL500, Q filter on a push pull tone pot also fitted with a regular 22n cap). I've enabled a TS808 and plugged it in one of my tube amps whose specs are vaguely similar to a Deluxe Reverb. I've tweaked the pots. What I"ve heard during this quick attempt wasn't the tone evoked above, to my ears.
I'm not saying that it's not possible: I'm just explaining that it didn't work during the few minutes that I could spend in this experiment.
Without denying that Johnny Lang might use a regular tone pot with a simple underrated 0.022µ cap, I wouldn't be surprised if a tech has put in his guitar a "custom" tone circuit: I've mounted myself dozens of custom designed and custom built tone pots these last decades. All my own guitars include home designed tone pots with caps and/or inductors of various values, each being especially fine tuned for the guitar and its pickups. I guess I'm not the only old geek to do such things - LOL.
BTW, another thing floating in my old memories is that Pete Willis (Def Leppard) had put a low value cap in his Hamer to obtain a cocked wah tone... and low value caps are also a recipe applied by another famous pickup maker in some of his harnesses but it's another story.
Enough said. I wish the OP to find an answer weither this answer involves what I mention or not.
And I wish you all a nice day.
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Thanks for this!!! A real-world report (no guesswork)! I don't know anything about the 500XL, but your explanation is certainly the most likely, as it's the most EASY... meaning, nothing special happened. His original WRHBs likely had a .022 tone cap (altho I thought.047 would be standard with them), and the CS just dropped the new pickups in, with coil spilts, but left everything else alone. If I hear back from Becky, I will relat your experience to her to see if she is familiar with this behavior of the 500XL.
Thanks for this!!! A real-world report (no guesswork)! I don't know anything about the 500XL, but your explanation is certainly the most likely, as it's the most EASY... meaning, nothing special happened. His original WRHBs likely had a .022 tone cap (altho I thought.047 would be standard with them), and the CS just dropped the new pickups in, with coil spilts, but left everything else alone. If I hear back from Becky, I will relat your experience to her to see if she is familiar with this behavior of the 500XL.
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freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Since I had a few last minutes to contribute to this topic, I’ve done a quick experiment.
I’ve used my Steinberger Spirit with Bill Lawrence PU’s. The bridge one is a vintage L500, which has the same specs than a contemporary L500XL. I’ve plugged it straight to the board, through a 1M input.
Then I’ve played chords from unfretted strings to 12th fret. The charts below stack the frequencies produced during these few seconds of playing.
UPPER LEFT pic shows the response of this bridge pickup with its 500k volume and tone full up.
BOTTOM LEFT pic is the response of the pickup once the Q filter is set @ 0/10. One can see the scooped mids due to this LRC network.
BOTTOM RIGHT is the pickup filtered by the tone pot @ 0/10 (this control being fitted with a regular 0.022µ cap): the peak is located in the low mids (a.k.a. "low mud") and there's no more frequencies beyond 2khz... But it's normal: hey, after all, it's a regular tone pot!
UPPER RIGHT finally shows the same thing BUT now, the tone pot features a low value cap (=2.2nF, ten times lower than a regular 0.022µ component).
In this last case, the frequencies enhanced are twice higher than with a standard tone cap and let breathe the audio spectum until 5khz. This EQing matches the curve produced by many OD pedals (a TS produces a wide round mid boost centered around 800hz, for example).
I don’t know if this rambling answer gives any solution regarding the tone desired but at least, it should show what I was trying to explain in my posts above, about low value caps as mid enhancers.
As a side note, I add an explanation due to Bill Lawrence (R.I.P.). It's about guitar cables (whose capacitance acts exactly as if a low value tone cap was permanently enabled) BUT there's some words appliable to tone pots, after the central sentence: You might ask "How does the effect my tone?"...
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm
FWIW - two cents from this old fart of freefrog.)
Since I had a few last minutes to contribute to this topic, I’ve done a quick experiment.
I’ve used my Steinberger Spirit with Bill Lawrence PU’s. The bridge one is a vintage L500, which has the same specs than a contemporary L500XL. I’ve plugged it straight to the board, through a 1M input.
Then I’ve played chords from unfretted strings to 12th fret. The charts below stack the frequencies produced during these few seconds of playing.
UPPER LEFT pic shows the response of this bridge pickup with its 500k volume and tone full up.
BOTTOM LEFT pic is the response of the pickup once the Q filter is set @ 0/10. One can see the scooped mids due to this LRC network.
BOTTOM RIGHT is the pickup filtered by the tone pot @ 0/10 (this control being fitted with a regular 0.022µ cap): the peak is located in the low mids (a.k.a. "low mud") and there's no more frequencies beyond 2khz... But it's normal: hey, after all, it's a regular tone pot!
UPPER RIGHT finally shows the same thing BUT now, the tone pot features a low value cap (=2.2nF, ten times lower than a regular 0.022µ component).
In this last case, the frequencies enhanced are twice higher than with a standard tone cap and let breathe the audio spectum until 5khz. This EQing matches the curve produced by many OD pedals (a TS produces a wide round mid boost centered around 800hz, for example).
I don’t know if this rambling answer gives any solution regarding the tone desired but at least, it should show what I was trying to explain in my posts above, about low value caps as mid enhancers.
As a side note, I add an explanation due to Bill Lawrence (R.I.P.). It's about guitar cables (whose capacitance acts exactly as if a low value tone cap was permanently enabled) BUT there's some words appliable to tone pots, after the central sentence: You might ask "How does the effect my tone?"...
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm
FWIW - two cents from this old fart of freefrog.
)Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Very cool! And thanks for taking the time!! It seems to me that, somewhere between EDX's report and your testing likely lies the answer. Whether it was the Fender Cs or Lang's tech, either someone put the "wrong" vale tone cap on, OR he requested the tone pot be more "useable", and a lower-value cap was used (.047 is the norm for humbuckers, if I'm not mistaken)... definitely gives me some things to try.
Since I had a few last minutes to contribute to this topic, I’ve done a quick experiment.
I’ve used my Steinberger Spirit with Bill Lawrence PU’s. The bridge one is a vintage L500, which has the same specs than a contemporary L500XL. I’ve plugged it straight to the board, through a 1M input.
Then I’ve played chords from unfretted strings to 12th fret. The charts below stack the frequencies produced during these few seconds of playing.
UPPER LEFT pic shows the response of this bridge pickup with its 500k volume and tone full up.
BOTTOM LEFT pic is the response of the pickup once the Q filter is set @ 0/10. One can see the scooped mids due to this LRC network.
BOTTOM RIGHT is the pickup filtered by the tone pot @ 0/10 (this control being fitted with a regular 0.022µ cap): the peak is located in the low mids (a.k.a. "low mud") and there's no more frequencies beyond 2khz... But it's normal: hey, after all, it's a regular tone pot!
UPPER RIGHT finally shows the same thing BUT now, the tone pot features a low value cap (=2.2nF, ten times lower than a regular 0.022µ component).
In this last case, the frequencies enhanced are twice higher than with a standard tone cap and let breathe the audio spectum until 5khz. This EQing matches the curve produced by many OD pedals (a TS produces a wide round mid boost centered around 800hz, for example).
I don’t know if this rambling answer gives any solution regarding the tone desired but at least, it should show what I was trying to explain in my posts above, about low value caps as mid enhancers.
View attachment 80462
As a side note, I add an explanation due to Bill Lawrence (R.I.P.). It's about guitar cables (whose capacitance acts exactly as if a low value tone cap was permanently enabled) BUT there's some words appliable to tone pots, after the central sentence: You might ask "How does the effect my tone?"...
http://www.billlawrence.com/Pages/All_About_Tone.htm/CableandSound.htm
FWIW - two cents from this old fart of freefrog.
Very cool! And thanks for taking the time!! It seems to me that, somewhere between EDX's report and your testing likely lies the answer. Whether it was the Fender Cs or Lang's tech, either someone put the "wrong" vale tone cap on, OR he requested the tone pot be more "useable", and a lower-value cap was used (.047 is the norm for humbuckers, if I'm not mistaken)... definitely gives me some things to try.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
you're welcome.
Although I've not found the SH13 totally similar to Bill Lawrence's (nor vintage BL's identical to Bill & Becky or contemporary BL USA), I must say that I agree with EDX about the typical mids of such "thin blades humbuckers": the tone cap is just a detail in this whole sonic picture.
The good thing is that average capacitors are not expensive and are easy to swap on a tone pot:we just need two alligator clips to connect them temporarily before soldering.
Let us know what will be the results of your quest. Good luck!
you're welcome.
Although I've not found the SH13 totally similar to Bill Lawrence's (nor vintage BL's identical to Bill & Becky or contemporary BL USA), I must say that I agree with EDX about the typical mids of such "thin blades humbuckers": the tone cap is just a detail in this whole sonic picture.
The good thing is that average capacitors are not expensive and are easy to swap on a tone pot:we just need two alligator clips to connect them temporarily before soldering.
Let us know what will be the results of your quest. Good luck!
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/bill-lawrence-q-filter-what-is-it-and-why-do-i-need-one.690379/
Here is some good info.
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/bill-lawrence-q-filter-what-is-it-and-why-do-i-need-one.690379/
Here is some good info.
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Yes, I had read that thread. The problem with the Q-filter idea is, it would be working IN REVERSE as to the way Jonny describes his working. He rolls the tone knob full BACK to "boost midrange"... and, even if his was wired backwards to achieve that, I don't think you could achieve a "normal" bridge pickup tone with the Q-filter fully engaged, it changes the sound too drastically to "make it up" at the amp (if one were going to use the "full on q-filter" for rhythm, then roll it out of the signal path for mid-boosted leads.)
I think the lower-value cap makes more sense.
Yes, I had read that thread. The problem with the Q-filter idea is, it would be working IN REVERSE as to the way Jonny describes his working. He rolls the tone knob full BACK to "boost midrange"... and, even if his was wired backwards to achieve that, I don't think you could achieve a "normal" bridge pickup tone with the Q-filter fully engaged, it changes the sound too drastically to "make it up" at the amp (if one were going to use the "full on q-filter" for rhythm, then roll it out of the signal path for mid-boosted leads.)
I think the lower-value cap makes more sense.
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Way OT, but when did he change to Bill Lawrence? (I haven't kept up with him in 15 years)
Way OT, but when did he change to Bill Lawrence? (I haven't kept up with him in 15 years)
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
his first 3 albums were WRHBs. Beginning with Turn Around, he was on BL's. Becky Lawrence said they sent BLs to the Fender CS to be installed in that tele in 2004. L500XL bridge, L500L Neck.
his first 3 albums were WRHBs. Beginning with Turn Around, he was on BL's. Becky Lawrence said they sent BLs to the Fender CS to be installed in that tele in 2004. L500XL bridge, L500L Neck.
freefrog
Well-known member
Re: Q-filter? (Jonny Lang content)
Suggestively, a regular Strat pickup + a 10nF cap will give practically the same result than a L500XL + a smaller value cap: as a matter of fact, a Strat single coil has a typical inductance of 2 to 3H. A CS69, for example, measures 2,2H.
A L500XL, conversely, can easily measure more than its official 9H.
Knowing that the "resonant frequency" is calculated thanks to the capacitance multiplied by the inductance, one can see why this operation applied to a Strat single coil + a 0.01µ cap (2.2H * 10nF) can give the same result than the same calculation applied to a L500XL + a smaller cap (10H * 2,2nF).
LINKS - the formula mentioned above can be seen here: http://www.syscompdesign.com/assets/images/appnotes/guitar-pickups.pdf
For those who want to experiment virtually with cap values, Q filters and so on without going through the pain of calculation, here is a reminder : https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...equency-response-calculator-for-guitar-freaks
FWIW (= 2 cents of geeky rambling).:9::laugh::beerchug:
Suggestively, a regular Strat pickup + a 10nF cap will give practically the same result than a L500XL + a smaller value cap: as a matter of fact, a Strat single coil has a typical inductance of 2 to 3H. A CS69, for example, measures 2,2H.
A L500XL, conversely, can easily measure more than its official 9H.
Knowing that the "resonant frequency" is calculated thanks to the capacitance multiplied by the inductance, one can see why this operation applied to a Strat single coil + a 0.01µ cap (2.2H * 10nF) can give the same result than the same calculation applied to a L500XL + a smaller cap (10H * 2,2nF).
LINKS - the formula mentioned above can be seen here: http://www.syscompdesign.com/assets/images/appnotes/guitar-pickups.pdf
For those who want to experiment virtually with cap values, Q filters and so on without going through the pain of calculation, here is a reminder : https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...equency-response-calculator-for-guitar-freaks
FWIW (= 2 cents of geeky rambling).:9::laugh::beerchug:
