Qualities of A6 and A9

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GuitarDoc

Bacteriaolgoist
I know some of you have tried these magnets and have even posted about them, but I can't remember who or when or what.
If you could please tell me about them relative to other alnico magnets (especially relative to A8 and/or A5) I'd greatly appreciate it. And if you have done some actual testing or comparative studies, that would be super.

I am very familiar with the output and tonal characteristics of A2, A3, A4, A5 (both polished and rough cast), UOA5, and A8, but I have never tried A6 and A9. Many years ago Blueman made a great chart of magnet properties...something along those lines would be good.

Please don't tell me that the only way I'll know for sure is to try it myself (due to differences in hearing, guitars, amps, other equipment, etc, etc) I understand that and totally agree. Don't ask me what pup or guitar they will be going into...I'll get around to that later.

I just want to know their characteristics RELATIVE to other alnico magnets.

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

A6 is like A5 with more mids. A9 is gritty like A8 but less synthetic. They're both great.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Less "synthetic"?

I never thought of the A8 as sounding "synthetic". I've thought of it as being a powerful A5 with softer highs (but still very articulate), more mids, and a strong tight bass. As "natural" sounding as any alnico, and very warm.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Yeah A8 isn't synthetic like ceramic at all. Modern? Anyways A9 has the highs of A5 with the midrange grit of A8.
 
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Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

An A6 to me is just a darker, less agressive A8. They were used in lipstick tubes pickups to compensate for the low amount of copper on the coils. The only humbucker I've seen them in was the Famous Amos PAFs. As for an A9, I've only tried it in a few pickups, but to me an A9 is to an A5 what an A8 is to an A2. It's like a louder A5 with less scoopy mids. At the point you're just as well off with a ceramic really. Their cheaper, easier to come by, and the big differences between them are ones that can easily be adjusted for with a slight change in EQ.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

To me, the highs of a ceramic are bright but piercing and brittle sounding (ice-picky). The highs of an A5 are bright but not piercing and brittle (warm and pleasant sounding). So, what type of highs does the A9 have? More like an A5 or like a ceramic?
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Yes, closer to A5 highs. Not quite as piercing as ceramic but more than A8.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

I'd say the highs of an A9 are closer in pronouncedness to a ceramic, but they have a wider q that's closer to an A5, which helps to eliminate the harshness.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Hey, thanks guys. I really appreciate the help.
Sounds like they are both great magnets that certainly can have their application.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

A6: an A2 in steroids. Loud, tight but a bit stiff sounding. I'd use it with bridge p'ups only. Pretty good for PAFish p'ups, excellent for Jazz Rock/Fusion or even '80s Rock with a souped-up Plexi.

A9: everything you hate in a ceramic, but with even brittlier highs and abnoxious in character. Tight, cold, sterile, nails-on-a-chalkboard- sounding. No good for nuance and/or articulation. Not great in sustain. Plus, it costs over three times an A8, or 20 times a double-ceramic, and are not easy to find. I just couldn't find a use that could justify the investment. I ended up giving'em away to some friends. It could maybe work with p'up well over 16K, which are definately NOT my cup of tea.

Doc, you're welcome to PM me if you need more detailed and/or specif info about magnets. I'll be glad if I can be of assistence.

/Peter
 
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Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Peter, your description of the A9 highs is almost the opposite of what Chris and Clint said.

"...the highs of an A9 are closer in pronouncedness to a ceramic, but they have a wider q that's closer to an A5, which helps to eliminate the harshness".

"Yes, closer to A5 highs. Not quite as piercing as ceramic but more than A8"

Now I'm really confused.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

I didn't find A9 to be overly harsh. It has grind and bite, but positive in my view. I use it in rhythm position to add bite and rock voicing to a 9.5k hybrid.

Also didn't find A6 stiff at all. To me it responds just like A5 but with mids and a little less high.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

Couple possible reasons for varying descriptions (besides differing ears): use in different pickups, and different magnet suppliers with varying magnet materials composition and charge levels.

Peter's description of A6 makes some sense, a hotter magnet can feel stiffer in some pickups, it's all in how it hits your amp, and the feel you are used to/want in that setup. A9, though... hard to reconcile, he's the only report I can recall of it being harsher on highs than ceramic. Also, A9 price in USA doesn't seem far out of line with other magnets. I wonder if his supplier mixed up and gave him an unusual grade of ceramic? I seem to recall one of the higher nonstandard ceramics lacking in low end, with a really terrible high end in guitar pickups.

Assuming the other descriptions are more accurate for A9, I wonder how they'd do as rail magnets on P-Rails. Which other threads suggest is much like a split Hot Rails, which is supposed to be quite a good clean sound aside from a bit of ceramic presence. Get that under control and I'd probably be happy. Get one like Peter's A9, though... Ugh.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

GuitarDoc said:
Peter, your description of the A9 highs is almost the opposite of what Chris and Clint said.

"...the highs of an A9 are closer in pronouncedness to a ceramic, but they have a wider q that's closer to an A5, which helps to eliminate the harshness".

"Yes, closer to A5 highs. Not quite as piercing as ceramic but more than A8"

Now I'm really confused.
Click to expand...

Mine was in a Distortion in the bridge of a Les Paul, so it may have been a hotter wind than what Peter was using. One disclaimer I will mention is that while I could coax some decent tones out of it, I could predict that an A9 would lend itself better to heavier genres.

I'd say if you're up for trying them out, even if they don't find a home in any of your pickups, it would be a good experience to test them out in different styles of pickups as you acquire them.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

I quite routinely use an A8 under the rail coil of a neck P-Rail used in the bridge position (with rail coil toward the bridge).
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

My experience was similar to Discharged, but I also find most pickups with an A8 to be painfully harsh in standard turning.
 
Re: Qualities of A6 and A9

GuitarDoc said:
Peter, your description of the A9 highs is almost the opposite of what Chris and Clint said. Now I'm really confused.
Click to expand...
And I don't blame you.

I blame the source selling magnets as A9, not being what they supposed to be... the re-sellers oredered something and got delivered something else in most cases, and in some rare occasions, specially whith small orders, the re-seller ships what they have just to fill the order. It happens all the time, and how many p'up aficionados would own a decent gaussmeter?

As magnet grades can't be tell apart by eye, only by carefully measuring'em with a well-calibrated gaussmeter, in the process of picking'em and packing'em, many times the suppliers get it wrong. I can cite what happened to me, when I was in the process of sampling different magnet suppliers to decide on a reliable supplier: I've ordered a small batch of every grade they produced, and even though I got'em, every one of them was packed with the wrong label! If I didn't have my gaussmeter, I would've gotten the wrong idea of what a magnet grade supposed to sound in a p'up!

Also, I don't wind p'ups for the Metal market, only low-wind vintage and modern types. That's maybe why a REAL A9 would sound like it did to my ears, as the highest wind I deal is about 8.9K, most are 8.5K, all wound with AWG#42 wire in my bridge models but, as I serve the Jazz-playing grandpas-in-pension market of my neck of woods, the ones I wind and mod the most are neck models.

In my case, I don't even offer A5s, as I have a several dozens lying around product of changing'em with another type, which is one of the most common reasons I get customers in my moonlighting workshop in the first place.

So Doc, that's the skinny. Hope it was somewhat useful to your research.
 
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