Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

benji657

benji657

New member
...pertaining to humbuckers..

I remember reading that when seth lover designed the paf, he made one coil of adjustable screws for the sole purpose of "marketing." I wish I had my beauty of the burst book with me as it would probably tell me, but as I do not, I ask this question. So, does adjusting the polepiece scientifically alter the tone? I don't want any speculation or any "well i think..." predictions, I just want hard facts.

Thanks:)
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

Yes. If people can hear it with their ears, I'm 100% certain it can be "scientifically" measured.
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

You can tune a pickups tone and response by changing the height of the poles. Why do you think that strat magnets are staggered? The PAF also was not the first pickup with adjustable poles. I usually radius the poles to match the curvature of the bridge and the neck. If you think it's a gimmick, you could buy pickups with rails instead. Although even bill Lawrence has radiused rails on some of his pickups.
 
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Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

idsnowdog said:
You can tune a pickups tone and response by changing the height of the poles. Why do you think that strat magnets are staggered? The PAF also was not the first pickup with adjustable poles. I usually radius the poles to match the curvature of the bridge and the neck. If you think it's a gimmick, you could buy pickups with rails instead. Although even bill Lawrence has radiused rails on some of his pickups.
Click to expand...

because for strat pickups, the polepieces are the magnets?...

humbuckers have a magnet bar on the baseplate...:)
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

benji657 said:
because for strat pickups, the polepieces are the magnets?...

humbuckers have a magnet bar on the baseplate...:)
Click to expand...

the polepieces extend the field and act in the same manner.

Luke
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

I read the staggered Strat was Leo Fenders - way of competing with Gibsons adjustable pole pieces - as his field sales reps reported back to him about the store owners requesting adjustable poles like Gibsons.

I have a few thoughts on this, My main "Gripe" is the taller magnets hold more "Gauss/Strength" and the lower ones less~as intended in the design- BUT: when you look at Fenders magnet charger from the 1950's its jaws are flat - not matching the stagger - this cause's the lowered magnets to really suffer for Gauss as the taller ones actually hold the magnitizers Jaws away from them. - this sucks! if you put a flat pole AlNiCo-V pickup in the jaws the gauss will be about 1250 normally across all poles - yet a staggered AlNiCo-V will read 1250 on the centered taller poles and 1000 to 900 on the lower ones - it really throws the pickup all out of whack -

In the case of Fender my guess is it was for looks and competition because the measurements I get seem to unbalance the string to string volumes instead of helping it!!! - I made a Pin magnetizing tool to get the gauss to even out and let the _POLE HEIGHT_ finally do its intended job!!!

So my guess is Gibson may have known it helped sales - they had to also know it worked - and worked very well - as the gauss was not messed with just the height - which is what your after when your trying to offset string to string volume - loss-or-spikes

I hope this helps?
Don Mare
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

Don Mare said:
I read the staggered Strat was Leo Fenders - way of competing with Gibsons adjustable pole pieces - as his field sales reps reported back to him about the store owners requesting adjustable poles like Gibsons.

I have a few thoughts on this, My main "Gripe" is the taller magnets hold more "Gauss/Strength" and the lower ones less~as intended in the design- BUT: when you look at Fenders magnet charger from the 1950's its jaws are flat - not matching the stagger - this cause's the lowered magnets to really suffer for Gauss as the taller ones actually hold the magnitizers Jaws away from them. - this sucks! if you put a flat pole AlNiCo-V pickup in the jaws the gauss will be about 1250 normally across all poles - yet a staggered AlNiCo-V will read 1250 on the centered taller poles and 1000 to 900 on the lower ones - it really throws the pickup all out of whack -

In the case of Fender my guess is it was for looks and competition because the measurements I get seem to unbalance the string to string volumes instead of helping it!!! - I made a Pin magnetizing tool to get the gauss to even out and let the _POLE HEIGHT_ finally do its intended job!!!

So my guess is Gibson may have known it helped sales - they had to also know it worked - and worked very well - as the gauss was not messed with just the height - which is what your after when your trying to offset string to string volume - loss-or-spikes

I hope this helps?
Don Mare
Click to expand...

perfect. exactly what i was looking for. :)
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

Don Mare said:
I read the staggered Strat was Leo Fenders - way of competing with Gibsons adjustable pole pieces
Click to expand...

I don't think it was the case, Don. The main cause was the difference in volume among wound and plain strings in a set. The stagger was born with Strat p'ups, in 1954. The humbucker p'up created by Seth Lover was applied for patenting in 1955, but the first production HB was out in 1957.

Even today, the adjustable polepieces in magnetic p'ups for acoustic guitars and Bronze strings are staggered just like Strat p'ups.
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

benji657 said:
...pertaining to humbuckers..

I remember reading that when seth lover designed the paf, he made one coil of adjustable screws for the sole purpose of "marketing." I wish I had my beauty of the burst book with me as it would probably tell me, but as I do not, I ask this question. So, does adjusting the polepiece scientifically alter the tone? I don't want any speculation or any "well i think..." predictions, I just want hard facts.

Thanks:)
Click to expand...

Er, you have not actually stated what you believe "the myth" to be.

Adjustable polepieces are there to be adjusted.

Every time I see a HB with all of the screw head slots lined up the same way, perpendicular to the strings, I know that the PU is either brand, spanking new or that its owner is clueless about how to adjust the screws.
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

Following some suggestions I came across on this forum I drastically altered the screws on the JB I have in my SG. I hated the result but it did make a huge difference to the tone. Once I'd experienced how much difference adjusting the screws could make I spent a few days tweaking until I got the sound exactly how I wanted it so a good result. Definitely got to be done - you're missing out if you don't try it.
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

LtKojak said:
I don't think it was the case, Don. The main cause was the difference in volume among wound and plain strings in a set. The stagger was born with Strat p'ups, in 1954. The humbucker p'up created by Seth Lover was applied for patenting in 1955, but the first production HB was out in 1957.

Even today, the adjustable polepieces in magnetic p'ups for acoustic guitars and Bronze strings are staggered just like Strat p'ups.
Click to expand...

let me add.. the adjustable pole P-90 that was Leo Fenders Competition in 1954,

Bronze strings require "shunts" on the plain unwound strings or they will have way more volume then the Bronze wrapped - because Bronze is not magnetic and only the skinny steel portion that the Bronze is wrapped over will be able to activate the pickup.

The Strat Stagger was born with a Wound G-String in mind - so as soon as we all went to "plain-G strings" we further ruined the already flawed design, by increasing the G volume with that plain G string ..

Heres what Leo Fender did know - and pehaps why he felt the stagger would work,
On his very old 10 pole Lap Steel Pickups - he would use a .300 tall on the low string and the magnets graduated up evenly to .0900 on the highest string -
but the stagger is seen-only when you flip the pickup over - reason for this was Gauss,
Leo knew a .0300 Alnico-5 would only gauss up to about 500 gauss points, ( not 1250) this was due to its shortness (length) - and that worked on the steel model guitar as the gauss gradually increased where it was needed.

but the Strats Stagger Design gets wrecked is on the Flat Jaws of the Charger - in order for the design to have worked - the jaws of that charger would have needed to match the stagger - but it never was done, also the customer would have to use wound G strings -

there is also another flaw on the design - this is heard when you pick downward on the high E - and compare the volume when you Pick Up on the High E - its two different levels...

if you magnetize the poles to equal gauss - and use a lower magnet for the G - you will have a nicely balanced Strat piickup
 
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Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

I always adjust the poles on my pups to follow the radius of the strings and when im done the usually look like this... / \ / \ / \ or \ / \ / \ /
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

wils07 said:
I always adjust the poles on my pups to follow the radius of the strings and when im done the usually look like this... / \ / \ / \ or \ / \ / \ /
Click to expand...

I recall reading somewhere that that was the best way to set the poles. Am I wrong?
I do it myself.
 
Re: Question for Evan about Polepiece screw adjustment (myth)

I forgot to mention that alignment over the poles create volume issues too,

We would all think- that a string that's equally centered over the magnet ( Dead-Center) would be the loudest - but actually the loud spot is slightly off center.... I'm not sure why? maybe its the magnets pull is greater on the string?

I did also see that humbuckers do better with the / \ / \ / \ / \ slots angled and offset like that,
we used to have a guy going around the jams adjusting the screws like that saying " Billy Gibbons;Showed him how to do that"
 
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