Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

[cakire82]

At the end of this month I am planning on getting a tube preamp for my rack setup. 99.99% it is going to be ENGL E 530. I have had my eyes on one of those for a while now.

http://www.engl-amps.com/cms/index.php?id=38&tx_ddfproducts_pi1[uid]=38&iPhoneBypass=1

My current setup is as

Guitar >> Fryette Valvulator-I >> Line6 POD X3 Live >> Fryette 2/90/2 Power Amp >> 2x12 (Celestion K100s)

So my question is how can I add the E 530 to this line up so I can use it as;

1) Bypassing X3 if desired
2) Using X3 only for effects (wah, od, dist, delay, reverb, wah...etc) but no amp modeling
3) Use E 530 through clean channel to enhance the X3 modeling sound.

Both X3live and E 530 has many ins and outs with FX loops and their user's manuals are equally complicated when comes to setup varieties.

As a side question; can X3live can be used as a midi switcher for E 530?

Thank you all in advance.

 

[Warheart]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

You seem to be very set in what you want, That's good.

The best way I can think to incorporate the X3 Live would be to use the 4 Cable Method.
From the line6 Community:

Q: What is the Four cable method? (POD X3 Live and Pro Only)

A: The “Four Cable” method (4CM) can be used for any effect unit that has an effects loop when connecting to an amplifier that has an effects loop (i.e. the POD X3 Live). This cabling method allows the end-user to place filters and overdrive units before the preamp section of the amplifier, and modulation and delay effects after the effect loop in the effect unit. This way the amplifier will provide the tones and the Line 6 device will provide the effects (pre and post). Be sure to enable the effects loop, and experiment with Pre-post effect to decide which method works best for you.

Instrument > X3Live guitar in

X3Live effect loop send > instrument input of preamplifier

preamplifier effect loop send > X3Live effect loop return

X3 line output > Power Amplifier effect loop return.

You can selectively use either the ENGL preamp or the preamp of the X3live and it will go straight to the Poweramp.

The Problem with this is that you're using a Floor Model. You're going to be running a LOT of cable. It shouldn't degrade sound, but you never know.

For your side question:
Problem.
The E530 does not have midi capability.
The X3live doesn't support a channel switching ability, aside from what I mentioned above, but that's more of a routing thing, not actually changing channels on the ENGL.

The solution:
Voodoo Lab Control Switcher

You can send midi commands from your X3Live to this unit, and this unit then changes channels on your ENGL.

 

[ozzynotwood]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

You seem to be very set in what you want, That's good.

The best way I can think to incorporate the X3 Live would be to use the 4 Cable Method.
From the line6 Community:

Q: What is the Four cable method? (POD X3 Live and Pro Only)

A: The “Four Cable” method (4CM) can be used for any effect unit that has an effects loop when connecting to an amplifier that has an effects loop (i.e. the POD X3 Live). This cabling method allows the end-user to place filters and overdrive units before the preamp section of the amplifier, and modulation and delay effects after the effect loop in the effect unit. This way the amplifier will provide the tones and the Line 6 device will provide the effects (pre and post). Be sure to enable the effects loop, and experiment with Pre-post effect to decide which method works best for you.

Instrument > X3Live guitar in

X3Live effect loop send > instrument input of preamplifier

preamplifier effect loop send > X3Live effect loop return

X3 line output > Power Amplifier effect loop return.

You can selectively use either the ENGL preamp or the preamp of the X3live and it will go straight to the Poweramp.

The Problem with this is that you're using a Floor Model. You're going to be running a LOT of cable. It shouldn't degrade sound, but you never know.

For your side question:
Problem.
The E530 does not have midi capability.
The X3live doesn't support a channel switching ability, aside from what I mentioned above, but that's more of a routing thing, not actually changing channels on the ENGL.

The solution:
Voodoo Lab Control Switcher

You can send midi commands from your X3Live to this unit, and this unit then changes channels on your ENGL.

Wow, i was just about to write out all that in my own words. I think that type of setup would need figuring out with all the equipment physically in hand. Between the 4CM and the GCX i think something like that would be possible.

Not that i want to hijack the thread, but now seems like the right time to discuss this; Does the 4CM create any type of ground loop hum?

 

[cakire82]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

You seem to be very set in what you want, That's good.

The best way I can think to incorporate the X3 Live would be to use the 4 Cable Method.
From the line6 Community:

Q: What is the Four cable method? (POD X3 Live and Pro Only)

A: The “Four Cable” method (4CM) can be used for any effect unit that has an effects loop when connecting to an amplifier that has an effects loop (i.e. the POD X3 Live). This cabling method allows the end-user to place filters and overdrive units before the preamp section of the amplifier, and modulation and delay effects after the effect loop in the effect unit. This way the amplifier will provide the tones and the Line 6 device will provide the effects (pre and post). Be sure to enable the effects loop, and experiment with Pre-post effect to decide which method works best for you.

Instrument > X3Live guitar in

X3Live effect loop send > instrument input of preamplifier

preamplifier effect loop send > X3Live effect loop return

X3 line output > Power Amplifier effect loop return.

You can selectively use either the ENGL preamp or the preamp of the X3live and it will go straight to the Poweramp.

The Problem with this is that you're using a Floor Model. You're going to be running a LOT of cable. It shouldn't degrade sound, but you never know.

For your side question:
Problem.
The E530 does not have midi capability.
The X3live doesn't support a channel switching ability, aside from what I mentioned above, but that's more of a routing thing, not actually changing channels on the ENGL.

The solution:
Voodoo Lab Control Switcher

You can send midi commands from your X3Live to this unit, and this unit then changes channels on your ENGL.

I will try this 4 cable method. I might be too tired to miss something but looks like it will provide me all 3 options I am looking for.

Yes. E 530 does not have midi capabilities. Engl Z11 is required (or voodoo labs) but how can I use X3live for as a ground control. Is this a question for lline6 forums?

 

[Warheart]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

Wow, i was just about to write out all that in my own words. I think that type of setup would need figuring out with all the equipment physically in hand. Between the 4CM and the GCX i think something like that would be possible.

Not that i want to hijack the thread, but now seems like the right time to discuss this; Does the 4CM create any type of ground loop hum?

Well, I just took a look through the manuals and googled a bit....I was kinda bored!

The 4CM can. For instance, in my setup, I run a Marshall JVM410H with a GSP1101 using the 4cm. I had to make the 2 effects loop cables Ground lift cables, just disconnected the ground on one end of those cables, to get rid of a ground loop that was causing a high pitched squeal.

If you can use regular cables and it doesn't create a ground loop, you're pretty good.

 

[Warheart]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

I will try this 4 cable method. I might be too tired to miss something but looks like it will provide me all 3 options I am looking for.

Yes. E 530 does not have midi capabilities. Engl Z11 is required (or voodoo labs) but how can I use X3live for as a ground control. Is this a question for lline6 forums?

Well, it gives you the ultimate versatility. It might take a day of programming, but once you have it where you want it, you can do ANYTHING with these kinds of setups.

NICE, I didn't know ENGL made a control switcher, I've been on their website a lot checking out that E530...I'd really want to get one someday myself.

To answer your question, you'd have to go into the midi menu, make sure that the X3live and the Z11 or Control Switcher are on the same midi channel and that the X3live is sending commands and the Control switcher is receiving those.

^^^ That is more of a hands on thing though...The VooDoo Vabs control switcher kinda auto detects when you send it a command, and saves the preset.

 

[cakire82]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

Well, it gives you the ultimate versatility. It might take a day of programming, but once you have it where you want it, you can do ANYTHING with these kinds of setups.

NICE, I didn't know ENGL made a control switcher, I've been on their website a lot checking out that E530...I'd really want to get one someday myself.

To answer your question, you'd have to go into the midi menu, make sure that the X3live and the Z11 or Control Switcher are on the same midi channel and that the X3live is sending commands and the Control switcher is receiving those.

^^^ That is more of a hands on thing though...The VooDoo Vabs control switcher kinda auto detects when you send it a command, and saves the preset.

Yeah, I have never used the MIDI features of the X3live before. It might take some getting used.

As far as the ground loop issue with the 4CM goes, what did you mean by you had to make the 2 effects loop cables Ground lift cables? Can you share more details on this process?

 

[crguti]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

I had the E530. I found that the clean channel was useless. I couln't get a nice sound out of it. But thr lead channel is in another legue... wow, pure brutality.

 

[Warheart]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

Yeah, I have never used the MIDI features of the X3live before. It might take some getting used.

As far as the ground loop issue with the 4CM goes, what did you mean by you had to make the 2 effects loop cables Ground lift cables? Can you share more details on this process?

Its not that hard, just make sure you have both manuals open to the midi page while you're doing it.

I took two regular guitar cables, and disconnected the ground on one end of the cable so that there wasn't a ground/shield connection on one end.
Thats it.

By doing that, there was only 1 cable going to the amp that had a ground, the one going to the amp's input.

Its very much like people with pedalboards defeating the ground in their power supply. Too many cables with grounds can cause ground loops.

 

[cakire82]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

I had the E530. I found that the clean channel was useless. I couln't get a nice sound out of it. But thr lead channel is in another legue... wow, pure brutality.

I am really not gonna be using it for cleans. Looking at some of the demos on you tube it does not sound that bad either though.

 

[cakire82]

Re: Question For Rack Setup Owners (ENGL E 530)

Its not that hard, just make sure you have both manuals open to the midi page while you're doing it.

I took two regular guitar cables, and disconnected the ground on one end of the cable so that there wasn't a ground/shield connection on one end.
Thats it.

By doing that, there was only 1 cable going to the amp that had a ground, the one going to the amp's input.

Its very much like people with pedalboards defeating the ground in their power supply. Too many cables with grounds can cause ground loops.

Sound simple enough. Thank you for the details. Appreciate it.