Questions Jazz Substitutions
- Thread starter zonniewiw
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gordon_39422
New member
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
Where is Belgique do you live? I spent some time in Charleroi a few yeaars ago... An awesome music fest that lasted the entire week I was there!
Anwyay to your questino... I am not quite following it... Generally, those terms are used for scale degrees...
Tonic - The 1st note, or the root
Supertopnic - is the ii, easily remember because it is one higher thant he tonic, thereby SUper
Mediant - the iii, it is halfway between the tonic and the dominant
Sub-Dominant - the IV, one below the dominant
Dominant - the V
Sub-mediant - the vi, has a tendency to resolve to the V
Leading Tone - the vii, has a tendency to resolve to the I
The most common chord substitution is the V/V, or the 5 of the 5... whereby you play the scale of the 5th interval of the 5th chord... in the key of G, the 5 is D, the 5 of D is A, so you play the A scale over the D in the key of G.... This takes a while to really develop good skills, because you have to be careful when selecting the tritone substituions...
I dont often play in C Minor, but give me minute, and I'll work it up for you....
Hope this helps some.
Allen
Where is Belgique do you live? I spent some time in Charleroi a few yeaars ago... An awesome music fest that lasted the entire week I was there!
Anwyay to your questino... I am not quite following it... Generally, those terms are used for scale degrees...
Tonic - The 1st note, or the root
Supertopnic - is the ii, easily remember because it is one higher thant he tonic, thereby SUper
Mediant - the iii, it is halfway between the tonic and the dominant
Sub-Dominant - the IV, one below the dominant
Dominant - the V
Sub-mediant - the vi, has a tendency to resolve to the V
Leading Tone - the vii, has a tendency to resolve to the I
The most common chord substitution is the V/V, or the 5 of the 5... whereby you play the scale of the 5th interval of the 5th chord... in the key of G, the 5 is D, the 5 of D is A, so you play the A scale over the D in the key of G.... This takes a while to really develop good skills, because you have to be careful when selecting the tritone substituions...
I dont often play in C Minor, but give me minute, and I'll work it up for you....
Hope this helps some.
Allen
zonniewiw
New member
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
I have this jazz video from Tal Farlow and I didn´t have a clue what he was talking after watching 5 minutes of it .
I don´t seem to understand the chord substitution thing
If I start in the key of G like you say ;
Let say I play chords G - D - C (the major key would be G)
So you say I can substitute the G into a D or an A for 3tone I just have to make sure that the notes I play are in the key of G ???
So for D (the second chord of my pattern) it would lead to A or E (and make sure that the notes I play are in the key of G???)
By the way , I live in Genk - Limburg it is on flamish side of Belgium but Belgium is just a few inches wide so I can be everywhere in 2 hours
I have this jazz video from Tal Farlow and I didn´t have a clue what he was talking after watching 5 minutes of it .
I don´t seem to understand the chord substitution thing
If I start in the key of G like you say ;
Let say I play chords G - D - C (the major key would be G)
So you say I can substitute the G into a D or an A for 3tone I just have to make sure that the notes I play are in the key of G ???
So for D (the second chord of my pattern) it would lead to A or E (and make sure that the notes I play are in the key of G???)
By the way , I live in Genk - Limburg it is on flamish side of Belgium but Belgium is just a few inches wide so I can be everywhere in 2 hours
gordon_39422
New member
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
Yeah, that is the jist of it...
One thing to remember, in jazz, inversions are used so often, it becomes nearly impossible to distinguish the chords they are playing... Not only are they substituting with a chord you wouldnt think belonged, but they are also playing either the 3rd, 5th, or 7th as the root... When they play a 3rd inversion of the V of the V, you could very well rack your brain forever trying to figure why the are playing a chord using the notes G#, A, C#, and E in the key of G!!!!
G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
G A B C D E F#
D the V
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D E F# G A B C#
A, the V of the V
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
A B C# D E F# G#
3rd Inversion of A (7th in the root)
7 1 3 5
G# A C# E
Seems like you have a grasp on the theory behind it!! It is just much harder to employ than other styles... Uninformed people always say that jazz has no structure, it seems random... Well, that may be true for a SMALL percentage of jazz styles, but most are harder to follow because ot Tritone Substitutions mixed with Chord Inversions!
Yeah, that is the jist of it...
One thing to remember, in jazz, inversions are used so often, it becomes nearly impossible to distinguish the chords they are playing... Not only are they substituting with a chord you wouldnt think belonged, but they are also playing either the 3rd, 5th, or 7th as the root... When they play a 3rd inversion of the V of the V, you could very well rack your brain forever trying to figure why the are playing a chord using the notes G#, A, C#, and E in the key of G!!!!
G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
G A B C D E F#
D the V
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D E F# G A B C#
A, the V of the V
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
A B C# D E F# G#
3rd Inversion of A (7th in the root)
7 1 3 5
G# A C# E
Seems like you have a grasp on the theory behind it!! It is just much harder to employ than other styles... Uninformed people always say that jazz has no structure, it seems random... Well, that may be true for a SMALL percentage of jazz styles, but most are harder to follow because ot Tritone Substitutions mixed with Chord Inversions!
gordon_39422
New member
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
I just re-read your post above, and realized, that you are slightly off in the interpretations... In chord substitution, you would use the A in place of the D, and the F in place of the C... SO you could play the following
G to D to C and substitute the V and IV with
G to A to F....
of course, just using major patterns this sounds weirdly interesting, but not necessarily desirable... In most jazz forms, the 3rd may in fact be a major, but the rest of the chord tones are flavored highly... These tones are what really help integrate these seemingly off the wall changes.....
I just re-read your post above, and realized, that you are slightly off in the interpretations... In chord substitution, you would use the A in place of the D, and the F in place of the C... SO you could play the following
G to D to C and substitute the V and IV with
G to A to F....
of course, just using major patterns this sounds weirdly interesting, but not necessarily desirable... In most jazz forms, the 3rd may in fact be a major, but the rest of the chord tones are flavored highly... These tones are what really help integrate these seemingly off the wall changes.....
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
Another way to look at substituions is like this . . .
In any given key, the I chord can be substituted with the iii and the vi chord.
The ii chord can be substited with the IV chord or a iidiminished chord.
The iii chord with the I chord and iv chord
The IV chord with the ii chord
The V chord with the vii diminished chord.
Another common substitution in jazz is creating turnarounds . . . so in a common G - D - C progression . . . you could have something like this . . .
|G |D |C |D
Now with subsititutions
|Gmaj7 |D13 Db(#9) |Cmaj7 |Am7 D9|
Another way to look at substituions is like this . . .
In any given key, the I chord can be substituted with the iii and the vi chord.
The ii chord can be substited with the IV chord or a iidiminished chord.
The iii chord with the I chord and iv chord
The IV chord with the ii chord
The V chord with the vii diminished chord.
Another common substitution in jazz is creating turnarounds . . . so in a common G - D - C progression . . . you could have something like this . . .
|G |D |C |D
Now with subsititutions
|Gmaj7 |D13 Db(#9) |Cmaj7 |Am7 D9|
E
Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
Hmm... i'll stick to Freejazz though, then i won't have to think while playing!
Hmm... i'll stick to Freejazz though, then i won't have to think while playing!
Re: Questions Jazz Substitutions
So, what i did for substitions . . . .
Bar 1 - Turning the G into a Gmaj7
This is just adding on an extension of the chord
Bar 2 - Changing the D into a D13
Just finding more upper extensions of the chord that are in the Key of G. The 13th (or a B) is in the key and sounds good over top of a dominant chord.
Bar 2 - Adding the Db(#9)
This is primarily just a chromatic idea that leads into the Cmaj7. The reason for the #9 is once again to keep some of the notes in that chord in the key of G. If I didnt add the #9, the chord would sound too outside to the listeners ear.
Bar 3 - Changing the C to a Cmaj7
Same thing I did with the G, just adding a jazzy extension
Bar 4 - Adding the Am7 and D9
This last bar is a great place for a 2 5 1, so instead of just having the D (or V chord) leading back to the G, toss in the ii chord and you have a very common, jazzy sounding turnaround. Learning to recognize and play over 2 5 1's is a great place to start for jazz improv.
I hope this helps,
PM Me if you have any other questions . . .
Ty
So, what i did for substitions . . . .
Bar 1 - Turning the G into a Gmaj7
This is just adding on an extension of the chord
Bar 2 - Changing the D into a D13
Just finding more upper extensions of the chord that are in the Key of G. The 13th (or a B) is in the key and sounds good over top of a dominant chord.
Bar 2 - Adding the Db(#9)
This is primarily just a chromatic idea that leads into the Cmaj7. The reason for the #9 is once again to keep some of the notes in that chord in the key of G. If I didnt add the #9, the chord would sound too outside to the listeners ear.
Bar 3 - Changing the C to a Cmaj7
Same thing I did with the G, just adding a jazzy extension
Bar 4 - Adding the Am7 and D9
This last bar is a great place for a 2 5 1, so instead of just having the D (or V chord) leading back to the G, toss in the ii chord and you have a very common, jazzy sounding turnaround. Learning to recognize and play over 2 5 1's is a great place to start for jazz improv.
I hope this helps,
PM Me if you have any other questions . . .
Ty