Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

[micstew]

Hi all -
Long time lurker, first time poster with a few noob questions...
1.) Can someone please explain the difference between a neck and bridge HB?
I'm not talking trembuckers (already made that mistake - the body of the TB I bought doesn't even fit in the pickguard hole, hurray), I'm just talking about the difference between, say, a PG1n and a PG1b. I see there's a DCR difference so they're physically and electrically different for some reason. Maybe different output? Tone?
2.) What is the difference between Alnico 2 and Alnico 5? (it's not Alnico 3)
3.) What does the prefix of the SD model number represent? SH-, ZS, SPH90, etc...
4a.) Why do only the trembuckers have 3 mounting holes per side? The HB hole in my HSS Carvin/Kiesel pickguard has one hole on the treble side but two on the bass side.
4b.) Since apparently I need a regular bridge version HB, and the regular SD HB's only have one hole per side, what's the best way to get the pickup mounted? I'm guessing I would have to add material to the bass side mounting tab and then drill and tap the necessary new holes, but no idea what to use for this.
I know, a lot of questions. I've been saving up. Sincere thanks for help with any/all of the above.
- Mike

 

[regan]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

1.) Can someone please explain the difference between a neck and bridge HB?
I'm not talking trembuckers (already made that mistake - the body of the TB I bought doesn't even fit in the pickguard hole, hurray), I'm just talking about the difference between, say, a PG1n and a PG1b. I see there's a DCR difference so they're physically and electrically different for some reason. Maybe different output? Tone?

The distance the string travels is smaller closer to the bridge & therefore creates a smaller signal for the pickup, bridge HB's are hotter to compensate & balance with the neck


2.) What is the difference between Alnico 2 and Alnico 5? (it's not Alnico 3)

Alnico is the magnet material & different ratios of aluminium nickel & cobalt are designated numbers short story different ratios have their own character

dunno about questions 3 & 4

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

The difference between neck and bridge depends on the set of pickups we are talking about, The difference between a 59B and a 59N is the 59N has less turns of wire making it a little lower output and a touch brighter for the neck slot.

Some others can have greater differences. A good example of this would be the Gravity Storm set, not only are different amounts of wire involved, the gauges are different and the pickups use different magnets.

As to why in the past they neck pickups were usually wound a little quieter to help balance the volume and a bit brighter to keep the tone from getting muffled. Some sets though have a specific idea in mind and are tailored to that.


As to the mounting issues those can be a bit of a pickle. Usually its easier to modify the pickguard than to try and modify the legs. It can be done a few ways to do it but still more difficult than modding the pickguard.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

#4: The multiple mounting holes on Trembucker legs is a Fender thing. Fender HSS Strats have two holes on one side of the pickup so you can level the pickup out once you get the height adjusted. I like the idea myself. You should be able to use the middle mounting hole and install a trembucker just like a regular humbucker if that is what you need. If you need to install a normal humbucker with only one mounting hole per side into a strat which has two mounting holes in the pickguard, the easiest way around the problem is to drill an additional hole between the two existing ones on the pickguard. It leaves two empty holes, but it works.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Pickup Magnets: https://youtu.be/uu9_MNi7wvw

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

#4: The multiple mounting holes on Trembucker legs is a Fender thing. Fender HSS Strats have two holes on one side of the pickup so you can level the pickup out once you get the height adjusted. I like the idea myself. You should be able to use the middle mounting hole and install a trembucker just like a regular humbucker if that is what you need. If you need to install a normal humbucker with only one mounting hole per side into a strat which has two mounting holes in the pickguard, the easiest way around the problem is to drill an additional hole between the two existing ones on the pickguard. It leaves two empty holes, but it works.

Also, on Duncan trembuckers the extra holes are not threaded, so only the middle holes can be used. A former employee once explained on here that it was part of a new mounting design or something they were researching but never changed the plates after that was abandoned.

Most of these questions can easily be answered by searching this forum. Google works better than the built-in forum search, but the answers are already all here.

 

[micstew]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Also, on Duncan trembuckers the extra holes are not threaded, so only the middle holes can be used.

Thanks Beau - I did notice at least that much so I thought I was pretty clever when I tapped (3-48) the necessary mounting holes on my new PG TB. That was right before I realized the body of the damn thing wouldn't fit through the pickguard hole. The key is that the existing TB holes have just enough material on the backside to thread. If you drill and thread a standard HB, the mounting tab is too thin by itself for enough threads to reside. I know it's not the easiest solution (as others have noted) but I may try a couple blobs of JB Weld on the tab of a standard HB - that stuff is plenty drillable and threadable.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

You're better off buying a new pickup ring to suit the duncan - Its very few pickups that have an offset drilling like the Carvin.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Also on some modern humbuckers the neck version has different polepiece spacing than the bridge pickup. The bridge will have a wider spacing to better match the string spread with modern bridges. I think the Gibson 490 bridge/neck versions are like this. Vintage humbuckers were the same for neck and bridge, they took them out of the same tray to install them, sometimes the neck even read slightly higher in DCR than the bridge.
Al

 

[micstew]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

For reference, here's the guitar I'm working on - has a Carvin HB in this photo.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

That is a cool Carvin. I dig the gecko. What pickups do you want to put in?

 

[micstew]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

That is a cool Carvin. I dig the gecko. What pickups do you want to put in?

Thanks. Have a Whole Lotta Humbucker due tomorrow. Will require some mounting alteration on one tab as previously discussed but I'm reasonably confident in that operation. Will report back when completed.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Don't freak out, but I think you are going to have to enlarge the pickup cavity to fit the new pickup. Carvin humbuckers are a bit more skinny than pretty much every other company's humbuckers. Are you handy with a file? And if the body is routed for the HSS pickups and not a universal route you may have to enlarge the body route as well.

If you definitely want to swap you may want to get another pickguard and just drill it for one screw on each side?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Did you buy the WLH with short mounting legs???
The vintage style Gibson pickup form factor has legs long enough for a carved top guitar with routing under the cap.
Strats need short leg pickups as the routs cannot be deeper due to the tremolo rout from the back.

 

[micstew]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Don't freak out, but I think you are going to have to enlarge the pickup cavity to fit the new pickup. Carvin humbuckers are a bit more skinny than pretty much every other company's humbuckers. Are you handy with a file? And if the body is routed for the HSS pickups and not a universal route you may have to enlarge the body route as well.

If you definitely want to swap you may want to get another pickguard and just drill it for one screw on each side?

> One thing I've learned is that any message that starts with "Don't freak out" is almost certainly cause to freak out. And yep, you're absolutely correct, Dave. The body is fine - Carvin Bolt bodies are routed HHH by default. But I just checked and the standard SD HB pickup is in fact too wide (in the narrow direction) for the Carvin pickguard opening. Carvin Bolt pickguards have a slightly unique shape and mounting pattern so you can't just throw a Fender on it without drilling a new hole in the body. At some point - and this may be it - I'm just going to decide that it's not worth it, re-install the Carvin HB and call it a day.

Thanks for pointing this out - surely saved me from the effort of drilling and tapping the mounting tab!

 

[jeremy]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

it should be pretty easy to widen the pickguard a bit to fit the new pup. are the new ones covered?

 

[micstew]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

it should be pretty easy to widen the pickguard a bit to fit the new pup. are the new ones covered?

Hi, no, the replacement is uncovered ( Whole Lotta HB ). So I basically have two choices:
1.) Widen the pickguard opening about 0.15" each side, drill and tap the HB mounting tab on the bass side
2.) Buy a different Carvin/Kiesel pickup and drop it in like it was meant to fit there in the first place

The C22B that was in the guitar is fine, but wholly uninspiring tonally, IMO. Just a little flat and no hotter than the single coils that are on the guitar. I'm only guessing that I will like the WLHB better - might as well guess at another Carvin/Kiesel pickup instead.

Thanks
- Mike

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Sorry to freak you out!
I think you could order a new pickguard direct from Kiesel, maybe even with a larger opening and/or no height screw holes? (I know you can send them pickups to install in a custom guitar build so I assume they have templates for standard-sized humbuckers?)

On the other hand, there are hotter pickups available from them so I guess it's just a matter of choosing which way to go.

 

[Teleplayer]

Re: Questions - Neck vs Bridge, Alnico #'s, Model Prefix, Mounting Holes

Probably more cost effective to change to another pickup that fits the pickguard properly, or swap to Humbucker version if you can still exchange it. I used to modify pickguards for Trembuckers, but IMO its smarter to save the trouble.