the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Does anybody here own a set of REAL PAF buckers...not reissue, or custom shop Duncan, or anything else. I'm talking about 57, 58, 59, PAF pickups...
REAL PAF owners...
- Thread starter the guy who invented fire
- Start date
Re: REAL PAF owners...
Heard a set.
They were in a beat up old Epi solid body.
Sounded OK unplugged, sounded good plugged in.
Kinda noisy.
That goes with the territory.
Are they worth the prices they're commanding?
Hell no.
Have I heard another humbucker that sounds like them?
Not really.
Granted, not heard antiquities(rarish, and not my bag), Seth Lovers(same issues) or burstbuckers(hate Gibson).
Will I hear another that sounds like those?
I'll go out on a limb and say:
Hell no.
Why not?
Total inconsistency. Hand wound and not even wound to full hum-cancellation.
Heard a set.
They were in a beat up old Epi solid body.
Sounded OK unplugged, sounded good plugged in.
Kinda noisy.
That goes with the territory.
Are they worth the prices they're commanding?
Hell no.
Have I heard another humbucker that sounds like them?
Not really.
Granted, not heard antiquities(rarish, and not my bag), Seth Lovers(same issues) or burstbuckers(hate Gibson).
Will I hear another that sounds like those?
I'll go out on a limb and say:
Hell no.
Why not?
Total inconsistency. Hand wound and not even wound to full hum-cancellation.
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: REAL PAF owners...
Actually, PAF's were wound on a Leesona (sp?) machine.
BTW, I played a set in a 61 335. Gorgeous guitar with an awesome sound. Would I pay $3000 for the pickups? No.
$1000? No again.
How about $500?
Nope. :blackeye:
There's stuff out there that can get you that sound for less money. :headbang:
TheGZeus said:
Actually, PAF's were wound on a Leesona (sp?) machine.
BTW, I played a set in a 61 335. Gorgeous guitar with an awesome sound. Would I pay $3000 for the pickups? No.
$1000? No again.
How about $500?
Nope. :blackeye:
There's stuff out there that can get you that sound for less money. :headbang:
Re: REAL PAF owners...
If I had an original LP that had broken or non-original pups, I'd gladly drop that kind of coin on some real PAFs. These guitars are valued at between $120-$200K. Most folks who are buying PAFs are 1) buying as an investment or 2) restoring a vintage LP or other vintage PAF-equipped Gibson. How many folks do you think buy PAFs to drop into their Custom Shop or production line Gibson? Or...what kind of a hit do you think you'd take if you were selling a real '59 burst with Antiquities?
Benjy_26 said:
If I had an original LP that had broken or non-original pups, I'd gladly drop that kind of coin on some real PAFs. These guitars are valued at between $120-$200K. Most folks who are buying PAFs are 1) buying as an investment or 2) restoring a vintage LP or other vintage PAF-equipped Gibson. How many folks do you think buy PAFs to drop into their Custom Shop or production line Gibson? Or...what kind of a hit do you think you'd take if you were selling a real '59 burst with Antiquities?
Last edited:
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: REAL PAF owners...
How many people interested in resale value gig a $200k guitar? Most people with those guitars probably have RI's or standard Gibson to gig with, so as to not jeopardize their original LP.
Those that don't probably don't give a darn about resale value. :burnout:
How many people interested in resale value gig a $200k guitar? Most people with those guitars probably have RI's or standard Gibson to gig with, so as to not jeopardize their original LP.
Those that don't probably don't give a darn about resale value. :burnout:
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: REAL PAF owners...
a 1961 GIbson of anykind, be it a les paul, 335, or a Barney Kessel would have pat # pickups which are NOT PAF's.
a 1961 GIbson of anykind, be it a les paul, 335, or a Barney Kessel would have pat # pickups which are NOT PAF's.
Re: REAL PAF owners...
That's true. I have a friend who owns over 150 vintage guitars, may of them Gibsons. He has LPs from every year ('52 thru '60), including 4 bursts. He's got 335s, 345s, 355s, yada yada yada. He bought them back in the 70's when he was gigging and making good $$. A burst back then could be had for a few grand. He didn't buy them with any idea that they would appreciate in value. He just loved the guitars. He gigs with them still. And sure, he has Historics that he uses as well. That's one kind of vintage owner. The other vintage owner is the person who, like you said, has their eye on investment value. They may not even know how to play guitar. Those guitars get locked away, to be sold again someday.
Benjy_26 said:
That's true. I have a friend who owns over 150 vintage guitars, may of them Gibsons. He has LPs from every year ('52 thru '60), including 4 bursts. He's got 335s, 345s, 355s, yada yada yada. He bought them back in the 70's when he was gigging and making good $$. A burst back then could be had for a few grand. He didn't buy them with any idea that they would appreciate in value. He just loved the guitars. He gigs with them still. And sure, he has Historics that he uses as well. That's one kind of vintage owner. The other vintage owner is the person who, like you said, has their eye on investment value. They may not even know how to play guitar. Those guitars get locked away, to be sold again someday.
Re: REAL PAF owners...
Let's try to get this straight, ok?
The PAF patent was filed on June 22, 1955. The patent was granted on July 28, 1959, and the assigned number was 2896491. PAFs have been documented to have been in new Gibson guitars as late as 1965. This seems to be especially true in guitars that had gold hardware, for reasons that are unknown. When Gibson finally got around to putting the patent # sticker or stamp on the baseplate, it was # 2737842. That number is actually the patent number for the trapeze tailpiece. Whether it was the tp that was on the '52 LP I can't say, I'd have to check on that. But some think that Gibson deliberately used the wrong # on the pups to keep others from finding the patent diagrams and documentation so easily. From 1961 on, Gibson used a magnet that was approx. 1/8" shorter than those used on previous PAFs. '57-'60 PAFs are the "gold standard" for PAFs. Here's a link to the USPO documents and drawings submitted by Seth Lover when he applied for the patent in 1955. 5 pages. Pretty cool.
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...ageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=077027A935DD
the guy who invented said:
Let's try to get this straight, ok?
The PAF patent was filed on June 22, 1955. The patent was granted on July 28, 1959, and the assigned number was 2896491. PAFs have been documented to have been in new Gibson guitars as late as 1965. This seems to be especially true in guitars that had gold hardware, for reasons that are unknown. When Gibson finally got around to putting the patent # sticker or stamp on the baseplate, it was # 2737842. That number is actually the patent number for the trapeze tailpiece. Whether it was the tp that was on the '52 LP I can't say, I'd have to check on that. But some think that Gibson deliberately used the wrong # on the pups to keep others from finding the patent diagrams and documentation so easily. From 1961 on, Gibson used a magnet that was approx. 1/8" shorter than those used on previous PAFs. '57-'60 PAFs are the "gold standard" for PAFs. Here's a link to the USPO documents and drawings submitted by Seth Lover when he applied for the patent in 1955. 5 pages. Pretty cool.
http://patimg2.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid...ageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=077027A935DD
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: REAL PAF owners...
If you say so, I won't say otherwise...I will say that it would be the exception to the rule! by late 1960 most if not all PAF were used up! All that about Gibson using the wrong number on purpose...please! Give me a break!!! Gibson is so stuck on themselves, they would say anything to sound cool or smarter that they really are! As a general rule a Gibson made past 1960 will have PAT # pups...with the shorter magnets...and YES it does make a difference, also worthy of note...57-60 PAF's might have had Alnico II, III or V magnets...by the time we got PAT # pups in 1961 that had gone to alnico V almost 100% of the time!
If you say so, I won't say otherwise...I will say that it would be the exception to the rule! by late 1960 most if not all PAF were used up! All that about Gibson using the wrong number on purpose...please! Give me a break!!! Gibson is so stuck on themselves, they would say anything to sound cool or smarter that they really are! As a general rule a Gibson made past 1960 will have PAT # pups...with the shorter magnets...and YES it does make a difference, also worthy of note...57-60 PAF's might have had Alnico II, III or V magnets...by the time we got PAT # pups in 1961 that had gone to alnico V almost 100% of the time!
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: REAL PAF owners...
I am just telling the story the way it was told to me several times over...I just wanted to know people's opinions on REAL PAF pickups...PAF pups and PAT # pups are different, these are the "facts" as ther were given to me!
I am just telling the story the way it was told to me several times over...I just wanted to know people's opinions on REAL PAF pickups...PAF pups and PAT # pups are different, these are the "facts" as ther were given to me!
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: REAL PAF owners...
My mom's '55 gibson jazz box, it looks like a e135 to me. The neck pickup is amazing, plenty of output, has that hollow snappy kinda sound to it, very warm, bright with a good bass end and mids if you dial them in. Amazing pickup, I can do anything with it. The bridge one is almost useless for me. It's got mids, but it's very weak sounding. Can't get agressive with it at all. Both are extremely vintage sounding.
My mom's '55 gibson jazz box, it looks like a e135 to me. The neck pickup is amazing, plenty of output, has that hollow snappy kinda sound to it, very warm, bright with a good bass end and mids if you dial them in. Amazing pickup, I can do anything with it. The bridge one is almost useless for me. It's got mids, but it's very weak sounding. Can't get agressive with it at all. Both are extremely vintage sounding.
dr.barlo
New member
Re: REAL PAF owners...
OK you guys need to make a simple distinction, PAF sticker vs. PAF pat#. That simple. That said it is a fact that they are different, and nowadays PAT stickers go for at least $1500.00 a piece. I saw a set (double white set!!!) that went for $7500.00 within one hour.
PAT# prices are increasing, but are still affordable, like $500-700 a piece as far as I remember.
Peace guys.
OK you guys need to make a simple distinction, PAF sticker vs. PAF pat#. That simple. That said it is a fact that they are different, and nowadays PAT stickers go for at least $1500.00 a piece. I saw a set (double white set!!!) that went for $7500.00 within one hour.
PAT# prices are increasing, but are still affordable, like $500-700 a piece as far as I remember.
Peace guys.
