Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

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The Drama Dude
I've been working on some more blues/rock tunes not for my solo album, but possibly for the next one after that.

Anyway one of the more rockin' ideas for a song i had, I was jamming it out yesterday, trying to come up with some new riffs and ways to lengthen the song in interesting grooving ways, when all of a sudden I had a compulsion to put in a section of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme song (the old 80's cartoon version) - 0:02 to 0:12



I used to LOVE TMNT when I was a kid (actually asked my mom one day if we could go live in the sewers of New York), and I still do, so I see it as paying homage to something I think is worthy of homage. But I'm also kinda ripping it off. I know lots of people "borrow" melodies, riffs, what have yous, and say they were influenced by that as a way of maintaining some semblance of artistic integrity, but all it really amounts to is an unoriginal ripoff.

How do you feel about borrowing other people's music to use as your own?
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

I have a large, fully-functioning imagination. I don't need other people's ideas, i have several lifetimes of my own. I don't care if the ideas of others are better than mine, i own mine and they work best for me. Of course there has been 'influence' during the formative years, but those influences came from imaginitive sources, and the greatest thing i got from those is the lesson to nurture my own imagination and find my own independence.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Pay is the operative word. If you use a recognisable motif from a published composition, you need to approach the owner(s) of the rights and request clearance. Usually, thrusting money into their grasping hands is enough to obtain permission.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

When it comes from something like that it's awesome.

On a similar note I was thinking the other day it'd be funny to start a band that plays originals but ends every song with the "woah-oh-oh-oh" chant from U2's Pride (In the Name of Love).
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

I am working on a song that is essentially a tribute to a certain band. It borrows many elements from the band ..... vocal cadence and inflections, instrumentation and mix, and so on. There is enough similarity of style and content that a fan would recognize it as something that band may have done, but still without actually copying any part of a published work.

As far as incorporating a part of a theme song, like others have mentioned, just be sure to do so in a way that is compliant with copywright law.

As for the idea ... if you like it and it fits go for it!
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

DankStar said:
On a similar note I was thinking the other day it'd be funny to start a band that plays originals but ends every song with the "woah-oh-oh-oh" chant from U2's Pride (In the Name of Love).
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Or ends every verse with "whoa-u-oh, o-o-o" like most Journey songs.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme is NOT original and has borrowed from previous pieces like EVERYONE else has.

No musical piece exists in a vacuum and no musician is an island unto themselves... they all were influenced by the music that they were exposed to while they were growing up.

Does everyone think of Steve Perry as a Sam Cooke rip-off? Of course not because most people are stupid.

Do people call SRV an Albert King/Buddy Guy/Charlie Christian rip-off? No, but he indeed is.

Most musicians are narcissists who think that everything that they touch turns to gold and that they are smarter than everyone else... the truth is that they are mimics who memorized various compositions throughout their lifetime.

Those compositions that they memorized get crossed with their unique personal experience (usually not all that unique) and their DNA to create something that on the surface seems original but (with a little investigation) is simply a regurgitation or new combination but certainly not without derivation.

I would not set out to deliberately ape anything but don't deny it if it comes naturally and subconsciously. If you came up with the riff but found out later that you just ripped off The TMNT theme, I wouldn't sweat it.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Yngwie.

And like Lazarus, my song Colossus is heavily influenced by Megadeth, including how the vocals sound in my head (haven't laid any down yet).
And yet, Mustaine has always reminded me of Alice Cooper, whom Dave is a fan of, as well as I, so who's to say I'm not referencing Alice with the vocals?

The guitar work does not specifically cite any Megadeth work I've heard, and no one who has heard it has said "hey, that's from ______", so I'm going with the notion that it's influenced by/a tribute to. I have no reason to believe that my song will be mistaken for an actual Megadeth work, except by the most brain-dead of our society (so about half the interwebs population :lol: )

Unlike SRV who stole everything from Leadbelly. No lie, I did not know you could play an acoustic that way, especially way back inna day.


Conversely, I did a "007 tribute" song years ago that quoted the original riff as well as the melodies from Diamonds Are Forever, View To A Kill, and the Goldeneye N64 game.
 
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Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Jazz artist do it all the time they "quote" each other. Sometimes the head of the song will be someone else's arrangement. It is often done and most times expected. No one sues anybody. Try that crap with pop or rock and you will find your butt in court.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

I love that theme so much. That and Power Rangers. I jam to them all the time. If it's bugging you THAT much you could tweak it a little to make it your own, like change the key and tempo or something. Zenmindbeginner is right, but I don't think he's giving nearly enough credit to the artists he mentioned. There was much more creativity going on then regurgitating licks and riffs, they had their own way of contributing by improving on what came before, not just repackaging the same thing with tiny tweaks.

Example: BB King and Robert Johnson influenced Clapton and Jeff Beck who influenced Van Halen. BB King and Robert Johnson sound NOTHING like Van Halen. And you can REALLY go down to the bone and mention the core elements of the 12 bar blues and all of the things they have in common with each other then but Robert Johnson didn't make that up either, he got it from somewhere, and it goes all the way back to African holler music.

Take what you like, build upon it, and make it your own. It's what everybody has always done and it's how music evolved. There is nothing wrong with it. The people who make the greatest improvements are the ones that go down in history.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

1-b3-4-b6. Classic. Unless you also included the heavy quarter note melody ("Teenage Mutant," etc.), no one would even notice the TMNT reference. They'd more likely think you were semi-copping "For Your Love" or "Steppin' Stone," if anything.

P.S. It's also very similar to one of the sections of Maiden's "Phantom of the Opera."
 
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Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Falloffthebonetone said:
Zenmindbeginner is right, but I don't think he's giving nearly enough credit to the artists he mentioned. There was much more creativity going on then regurgitating licks and riffs, they had their own way of contributing by improving on what came before, not just repackaging the same thing with tiny tweaks.
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I think it is just semantics. All artists, professional speakers, singers, creative types in general start with influences, we cross pollinate ourselves until we eventually create our 'own' way. Some stay put and regurgitate, some pursue and greater originality is birthed. This theme however is nothing in terms of originality. Nobody could pin it to the TMNT. Its literally a non-issue. Cheers.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

it is a pretty common progression. and it doesn't bug me at all that it's gonna be in the song...I wanted it in the song because a) it sounds great where it is in the song, and b) I freakin' love TMNT, so this is more exciting than bugging.

Just wanted to know what other ppl thought about it. I certainly have no shortage of original or "original" riffs, leads and ideas, but this TMNT thing was too good to pass up.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Securb said:
Jazz artist do it all the time they "quote" each other. Sometimes the head of the song will be someone else's arrangement. It is often done and most times expected. No one sues anybody. Try that crap with pop or rock and you will find your butt in court.
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I imagine the difference has a lot to do with how rock and pop are monetized, and how many various obsequious hangers-on might be attached to a rock or pop artist and stand to lose or gain depending how such things go.

At the end of the day, if you have to be sued into admitting that the other work existed, you've probably failed the test.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

To me, it's a matter of scope and context. Lifting a phrase can be cool, an entire verse/solo, not so much. The more it is out of context, the more you can get away with, though. IMO, playing a chunk of the guitar solo to "Who's Cryin' Now" in a metal song can be cool given the juxtaposition of styles.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Beer$ said:
I think you will all appreciate the first video of this series, but if you're a fan of Zepplin, you probably won't look at them the same way.
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I love Led Zep and they were one of the few band successfully sued (by Willie Dixon) for ripping off a blue songs. Keep in mind all of the British Invasion bands started out as cover bands on the dance circuit and studio musicians. A lot of them were fabricated bands, no different than the boy bands of the 1990's. These guys didn't have a lot of experience writing their own stuff in the beginning. Some of these guys paid homage, some out right ripped off old blues artists. Mick Jagger said no one cleaned out the Chess Records catalog better than the Stones. The Beatles had six covers on Please, Please Me and multiple recycled riffs in their originals. Even Eric Clapton's biggest hit Crossroads is a Robert Johnson song. As much as I love British Invasion rock that era had a lot of questionable practices in licensing and covering tunes.
 
Re: Ripping off VS. "paying homage"

Securb said:
I love Led Zep and they were one of the few band successfully sued (by Willie Dixon) for ripping off a blue songs. Keep in mind all of the British Invasion bands started out as cover bands on the dance circuit and studio musicians. A lot of them were fabricated bands, no different than the boy bands of the 1990's. These guys didn't have a lot of experience writing their own stuff in the beginning. Some of these guys paid homage, some out right ripped off old blues artists. Mick Jagger said no one cleaned out the Chess Records catalog better than the Stones. The Beatles had six covers on Please, Please Me and multiple recycled riffs in their originals. Even Eric Clapton's biggest hit Crossroads is a Robert Johnson song. As much as I love British Invasion rock that era had a lot of questionable practices in licensing and covering tunes.
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You're right, I'm certainly not singling out Zep, I know it's a lot to do with the territory and era.
 
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