S-1 Switch Popping noise

[sweet_lou]

I am getting a fairly loud pop through my amp intermitently when I either hit the S-1 button or change the coil switch. What's up with that :smack:


*Edit I just called Fender customer relations tech. I was told that it was the nature of the 5 way/S-1 it is normal :smack: What the hey it was only a 1000.00 guitar :yell:

 

[Artie]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Hmmm . . . one thing that could cause this is if your amp is putting a small amount of DC out on the "input" jack. So when you switch anything, you're "popping" that DC. If you've got the kind of cord that allows the cover to be unscrewed, then unscrew it, plug the guitar in, and measure across the plug to if there's a DC voltage.

You could try it by just measuring the voltage on the guitar end of the plug, but you'll probably have significant noise and/or hum, if you try to measure it "unloaded". That is, no guitar connected. The DC may only be present when the amp volume is up.

If there is DC present on the jack, it means there's probably an input cap going bad.

Hopefully, Kent, will jump in here too.

BTW - You could get a 1/4" plug from Radio Shack, or whomever, and solder a 10k resistor across the terminals, and plug that in to measure the voltage. That will approximate the load of a humbucker with 500k volume control.

 

[sweet_lou]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Hmmm . . . one thing that could cause this is if your amp is putting a small amount of DC out on the "input" jack. So when you switch anything, you're "popping" that DC. If you've got the kind of cord that allows the cover to be unscrewed, then unscrew it, plug the guitar in, and measure across the plug to if there's a DC voltage.

You could try it by just measuring the voltage on the guitar end of the plug, but you'll probably have significant noise and/or hum, if you try to measure it "unloaded". That is, no guitar connected. The DC may only be present when the amp volume is up.

If there is DC present on the jack, it means there's probably an input cap going bad.

Hopefully, Kent, will jump in here too.

BTW - You could get a 1/4" plug from Radio Shack, or whomever, and solder a 10k resistor across the terminals, and plug that in to measure the voltage. That will approximate the load of a humbucker with 500k volume control.

Thanks, first I am going to try it in my other little amp. I seem to remember it happening in it too. I will let you know after lunch. I use a little Marshall MG10 at my lunch hour practice.

 

[Gamera]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

There was some discussion about this on the Fender board awhile ago. I'm not 100% sure but I think the general consensus was it was the "special capacitor" that was causing the pop. You probably got a switching diagram with the guitar that shows certain positions with the S-1 engaged also activate a "special capacitor" that Fender added to increase the variety of available S-1 tones. I think this applies only to SSS configurations not HSS.

Also if memory serves correctly, the SSS S-1 switching had changed early on in the manufacturing process. The newer switching configuration turns on all 3 pups if the 5-way is in the center and the S-1 is engaged (down.) You can test to see if you have a newer one by aqctivating this setting and tapping the pole pieces with a screwdriver. If you hear a "thumping" with all pickups then you have the newer setup. Whether or not the newer setup solves any popping issues, I don't know. Hope this helps.

 

[Kent S.]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

There was some discussion about this on the Fender board awhile ago. I'm not 100% sure but I think the general consensus was it was the "special capacitor" that was causing the pop. You probably got a switching diagram with the guitar that shows certain positions with the S-1 engaged also activate a "special capacitor" that Fender added to increase the variety of available S-1 tones. I think this applies only to SSS configurations not HSS.

Also if memory serves correctly, the SSS S-1 switching had changed early on in the manufacturing process. The newer switching configuration turns on all 3 pups if the 5-way is in the center and the S-1 is engaged (down.) You can test to see if you have a newer one by aqctivating this setting and tapping the pole pieces with a screwdriver. If you hear a "thumping" with all pickups then you have the newer setup. Whether or not the newer setup solves any popping issues, I don't know. Hope this helps.

Any mechanical switch will pop thru and amp, especially if signal is going thru it at the time ... Normally though it's not bad ... , yes the S/S/S version does incorporate a partial frequency tap to one of the series modes (two actually, two positions, not two capaictors). Normally it's not a problem ...But, you can solder a 10Meg resistor in parallel with the capacitor and that should reduce or eliminate it (I'd have to go digging thru the schematic, but I'm fairly certain as to this), that's if the cap is somehow charging to some DC value (shouldn't be however). The other problem comes in, in that I believe that when to switch is changed it literally disconnects the guitars output for a split second ... and then reconnects it (I may be incorrect on this) again normally not a problem. I'm only familiar with the current schematic version, so I could say as to the old version.
I'd put that bleeder resistor across the cap, and see if that solves it ... it should be a .01uF or .05uF (I forget exactly off hand) cap mounted on the S-1 switch itself. Many times people often run into the same problem when they install a cap across the volume lugs (HPF ... treble bypass capacitor) with a switch to engage it or disengage it, putting that bleeder resistor in there eliminates the pop (same with amp bright switches, although the placement is a bit different for these examples). I'll have to check whether the parallel arrangement will work here, or whether a series one point bleed will work.
Try the parallel first as that's the easiest, the other I'll have to think about.

 

[sweet_lou]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Any mechanical switch will pop thru and amp, especially if signal is going thru it at the time ... Normally though it's not bad ... , yes the S/S/S version does incorporate a partial frequency tap to one of the series modes (two actually, two positions, not two capaictors). Normally it's not a problem ...But, you can solder a 10Meg resistor in parallel with the capacitor and that should reduce or eliminate it (I'd have to go digging thru the schematic, but I'm fairly certain as to this), that's if the cap is somehow charging to some DC value (shouldn't be however). The other problem comes in, in that I believe that when to switch is changed it literally disconnects the guitars output for a split second ... and then reconnects it (I may be incorrect on this) again normally not a problem. I'm only familiar with the current schematic version, so I could say as to the old version.
I'd put that bleeder resistor across the cap, and see if that solves it ... it should be a .01uF or .05uF (I forget exactly off hand) cap mounted on the S-1 switch itself. Many times people often run into the same problem when they install a cap across the volume lugs (HPF ... treble bypass capacitor) with a switch to engage it or disengage it, putting that bleeder resistor in there eliminates the pop (same with amp bright switches, although the placement is a bit different for these examples). I'll have to check whether the parallel arrangement will work here, or whether a series one point bleed will work.
Try the parallel first as that's the easiest, the other I'll have to think about.

Thanks Kent

That kind of work is out of my league. I will keep this info and see if I can find someone to help.

Could this cause a problem in my amp. it pops pretty Loud.
It sounds like when you brain fade a pull the Jack out of the guitar without shutting down the amp.

Lou

 

[Kent S.]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Thanks Kent

That kind of work is out of my league. I will keep this info and see if I can find someone to help.

Could this cause a problem in my amp. it pops pretty Loud.
It sounds like when you brain fade a pull the Jack out of the guitar without shutting down the amp.

Lou

Chances are no it won't really hurt anything, is possible, but not likely, maybe if the amp was going full up, it might be loud enough to blow a speaker ... But I really doubt it ... posssible, sure, probably ... Nah.
Actually, it is in your league ... As for the switch itself poping when changing states ... if it does it regardless of the 5way position ... I'll have to look a bit more into that as I'm not sure that I can keep that capacitor electronically coupled to the circuit in the normal mode without it affecting the tone ... Lets take it one step at a time ... bleeder resistors should mimimize the problem, if not eliminate it, the lower the value of resistors you can get away with will be better, but I wouldn't go lower than 2.2Meg (please understand this is blind guess territory though). The series resistor can actually be added one the 5way switch also, to where the #11 wire joins the switch throws, and the other end can be taken from the hot right at the switch commons, since those are all the same wires really, just a matter of where it's easier to solder it.

 

[Cory_Dylan]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Hey Lou,

i just got your PM.... sorry I can't really help you.

Honestly, (if you really aren't happy with the switching) what i would do is take the pickguard off with everything still assembled... and sell it on ebay as an S-1 wired pickguard. Then maybe you'll have money for some SDs and wire it back up like a normal strat. That strat you got is a beauty, it deserves it.....

anyway, good luck

Cory

 

[beandip]

Re: S-1 Switch Popping noise

Kent got it right. I remember a whole big discussion about it on the FDP. It was a small charge just constantly building up in the special cap, and it would make a popping sound whenever used. The new ones dont have that problem anymore.