Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

[Jackson Distortion]

Can guitars of the same model actually feel and play differently even if set up just the same, or am I just losing my mind?

I can understand them sounding differently for whatever reason, but I have multiple guitars and copies of many (if not most) of them and it perplexes me of how different they can be although they're "twins". Having said that, maybe I've answered my own question. :18:

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Yep.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

I've had duplicate guitars many times over the years and they're never identical. Usually it takes odd modifications to make them sound and play closer to each other.

You really have to know what parts are contributing to the sound you like and what's not working on the other to know what to change. It's a balancing act.

One's body and hardware is making the sound thin, might take a particular pickup to fill in the tone. The other might play like butter but the second can't be setup the same and maybe needs a different bridge or different string gauges to get the feel right.

 

[Davii]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

I've a pair of Les Pauls that I don't seem to be able to have the same bridge/tail piece setting, which always leaves me scratching my head. It's not an issue, but it does surprise me at how dissimilar they've ended up on that score!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

With a carved top you do have that as part of the manufacturing process. The whole setup and neck angle depends entirely on the finish sanding of the body as the fretboard lays on the top. Gibson's website states explicitly that the neck angle has a variation.

Bolt-on guitars can have variation in neck and body finish layer thicknesses leading to the neck sitting higher or lower in the pocket. Same guitar model, different bridge height or saddle height as a result.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

If you think they are the same, you aren't looking close enough.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Things people have a tendency to not look at (go ahead and add to it: )

-String tree height
-String tree position
-Tailpiece angle
-Neck angle/shim
-Neck 'elevation' above the body
-Fret height
-Tuner height
-Headstock angle (or 'elevation' of straight Fender-style headstocks)

 

[Davii]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

With a carved top you do have that as part of the manufacturing process. The whole setup and neck angle depends entirely on the finish sanding of the body as the fretboard lays on the top. Gibson's website states explicitly that the neck angle has a variation.

Bolt-on guitars can have variation in neck and body finish layer thicknesses leading to the neck sitting higher or lower in the pocket. Same guitar model, different bridge height or saddle height as a result.

Funny you should mention finish, as one is a Standard, the other a [budget] Tribute, so there's quite a lot of difference in that. I can't pull the tail piece down onto the body with the latter, as the strings are already a whisker front hitting the bridge, even though both feel pretty damn close to play.

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

This is eye-opening. Honestly, if I had known this earlier I wouldn't have accumulated so many guitars! :18:

It's surprising what you can learn even if you've been playing for decades. I'm in the process of whittling down my "collection" (hate calling it that because I'm a player...) based on what has now been confirmed. I mean, I've always felt that my identical guitars might actually be different, but my mind wouldn't accept it because the specs are the same.

I probably won't try to spend time (as I've spent enough on them already) trying to get the underperforming guitars to play like the better ones because I've enough guitars to part ways with them and still feel whole. lol

It's been a somewhat bittersweet experience. It's like you've been lied to. In the past year I'd look at the specs of guitars that rated the same, but when you'd play them side by side you knew something was up. Some necks would just feel right at home and others, off.

Also, having come to this knowledge and having so many guitars it's curbed my desire to buy more guitars sight unseen (although the overall experience has been overwhelmingly positive) because I fear I'd keep returning them to sender and having minimal returns. But, on the plus side it's good to know that their are guitars out there for each and every one of us, but you may have to play a bunch of 'em to find that the ones that feel just right!

There were times I'd actually considered giving up six string guitar to play the bass! Sheesh. :crazy:

 

[AlexR]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Funny you should mention finish, as one is a Standard, the other a [budget] Tribute, so there's quite a lot of difference in that. I can't pull the tail piece down onto the body with the latter, as the strings are already a whisker front hitting the bridge, even though both feel pretty damn close to play.

The LP of course has no issue with finish and setup......the neck is attached to the body before that step. It was the bolt ons where both the neck and body are finished before attaching that I was mainly targeting.

If you have a level with a digital angle reading try putting them on both guitars while sitting on the same surface.

 

[VinceT]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

This is eye-opening. Honestly, if I had known this earlier I wouldn't have accumulated so many guitars! :18:

It's surprising what you can learn even if you've been playing for decades. I'm in the process of whittling down my "collection" (hate calling it that because I'm a player...) based on what has now been confirmed. I mean, I've always felt that my identical guitars might actually be different, but my mind wouldn't accept it because the specs are the same.

I probably won't try to spend time (as I've spent enough on them already) trying to get the underperforming guitars to play like the better ones because I've enough guitars to part ways with them and still feel whole. lol

It's been a somewhat bittersweet experience. It's like you've been lied to. In the past year I'd look at the specs of guitars that rated the same, but when you'd play them side by side you knew something was up. Some necks would just feel right at home and others, off.

Also, having come to this knowledge and having so many guitars it's curbed my desire to buy more guitars sight unseen (although the overall experience has been overwhelmingly positive) because I fear I'd keep returning them to sender and having minimal returns. But, on the plus side it's good to know that their are guitars out there for each and every one of us, but you may have to play a bunch of 'em to find that the ones that feel just right!

There were times I'd actually considered giving up six string guitar to play the bass! Sheesh. :crazy:

I might suggest a slight shift in perception. What if all of them are at a baseline where you enjoy them, and you're finding the ones that are extra-special?

I had this experience when I added my Music Man Reflex, and found that I was playing that over the others. Went through a period where I became hyper-critical of all my other guitars, until I hit an epiphany point: these are WONDERFUL guitars, it's just the Music Man is something special TO ME. Now I enjoy each guitar for what they bring to the table.

One caveat to the above is that I have no repeated models.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Davii]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

The LP of course has no issue with finish and setup......the neck is attached to the body before that step. It was the bolt ons where both the neck and body are finished before attaching that I was mainly targeting.

If you have a level with a digital angle reading try putting them on both guitars while sitting on the same surface.

Ah ok, I thought you were saying that the difference in the number of applied layers of finish played a part. I don't have the means to compare the two, other than eyeballing it, though I'm taking the Tribute back to the luthier tomorrow to address some niggles, so might see what he can assess. It's nowhere near as slick as the Standard, but then there's also 21yrs wear n' tear difference too

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

I might suggest a slight shift in perception. What if all of them are at a baseline where you enjoy them, and you're finding the ones that are extra-special?

I had this experience when I added my Music Man Reflex, and found that I was playing that over the others. Went through a period where I became hyper-critical of all my other guitars, until I hit an epiphany point: these are WONDERFUL guitars, it's just the Music Man is something special TO ME. Now I enjoy each guitar for what they bring to the table.

One caveat to the above is that I have no repeated models.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Trust me when I say I've looked at it this way before, but what it did was leave me more confused! All the guitars I have are wonderful, but some are perfect for me while the others could be perfect for someone else. It really just wastes time playing guitars that are sort of okay versus the ones that are flat out amazing. I've struggled with it, but I feel separation is the way to go.

Thanks for the critical thinking though!

 

[VinceT]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Trust me when I say I've looked at it this way before, but what it did was leave me more confused! All the guitars I have are wonderful, but some are perfect for me while the others could be perfect for someone else. It really just wastes time playing guitars that are sort of okay versus the ones that are flat out amazing. I've struggled with it, but I feel separation is the way to go.

Thanks for the critical thinking though!

No argument from me - keep the machines that work for you and wave bye-bye to the rest. I've only ever sold off one guitar, and I never miss it or give it a second thought. Life's too short, and there's too much playing to be done!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

There are two brands that I think are the most consistent in feel. For electrics, I think G&Ls are tops. As long as I'm playing guitars with the same neck profile (they offer several different necks), they play really consistently...for me. All of my new Gibsons required setups, and even then they vary quite a bit, so I probably would never buy one sight unseen...but I would a G&L.

And while Martin dreadnaughts are by far my favorite acoustic guitars, for out of the box consistency in playability and tone, a Taylor would be the guitar I would have FEDEX ship to me if I needed a guitar on a desert island. (An Ovation would be my second choice.) Martins these days are much more consistent than they used to be, but Taylors are phenomenal in this regard.

Bill

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

From my perspective I kind of like to emphasize the differences. If you have two guitars, (1) more midrange heavy and squishy, (2) more crisp with solid bass, I might like to give the first A2 mags and pure nickel strings to emphasize those qualities and give (2) A5 mags with nickel/steel or steel strings to emphasize those characteristics. If the goal is to have all guitars sound and play the same, then you really only need a main guitar and a backup, right?

There are two brands that I think are the most consistent in feel. For electrics, I think G&Ls are tops. As long as I'm playing guitars with the same neck profile (they offer several different necks), they play really consistently...for me. All of my new Gibsons required setups, and even then they vary quite a bit, so I probably would never buy one sight unseen...but I would a G&L.

And while Martin dreadnaughts are by far my favorite acoustic guitars, for out of the box consistency in playability and tone, a Taylor would be the guitar I would have FEDEX ship to me if I needed a guitar on a desert island. (An Ovation would be my second choice.) Martins these days are much more consistent than they used to be, but Taylors are phenomenal in this regard.

Bill

I agree Taylors are spot-on from the factory. I've kind of always through that Martin ships with ultra high action to allow the player and luthier to work together to get the guitar optimized for the player.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Absolutely! In the past, Ive owned a few different "same models" of a brand and had them feel and sound diff. A few were older Kramers. Most recently was a Charvel pro mod.. Charvels are pretty much known for their necks, (love em!) and in these days of automation I was VERY shocked when the neck on the San Dimas was quite a bit chunkier than the one on my so cal..

I had a Kramer Focus 6000 that I bought a couple years back. (I had a few of them) But this one had a more unique tone to it. Had this really woody tone that sounded glorious... Never shoulda sold that one..

 

[JeffB]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Guitars are like your kids. same DNA...some similarities but each uniquely themselves. (for good or ill)

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

I don't mind that guitars have a personality; just remember there are physical reasons for it. Some can be altered, some can't.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Same models. Different Feels. Confusion.

Actually, I have tried some composite guitars that were identical in feel and sound.