Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

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kevinabb

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I'm fighting with a nice darkburst R8, trying to turn it into an all-Allman tone machine. A WCR Shredder has turned the bridge into 100% Duane's World.

Now for the neck ... I'm trying to nail a smooth, fat Duane tone like his studio solos on "Blue Sky", without buying a new pickup (since I have about 150 already!) I have tried over a dozen pup/magnet combos in there. I can get the tone I want from a Seth Lover, a '59, even a VanZandt Trubucker. But none of them is putting out the volume and presence required to match the Shredder bridge. (I've not tried a Jazz in there yet, but have one I can tear out of another les Paul if needed. but if the Seth and 59 aren't loud enough, the Jazz probably won't be).

I tried a WCR Fillmore and Darkburst; both had the volume and presence that I want (that's Jim's pickups for ya!) but neither of them quite nailed the fat warmth that I'm getting from the Seth.

So I decided to zero in on the Seth and start experimenting. An A3 mag made it too thin and weak; an A5 made it louder but sterilized its character to some extent. Took away too much low/mid beef, didn't leave enough warmth. Before I try an A4 and (God help me) an A8 in my neck pickup, I thought I'd get suggestions from the experts. And yes, I have a call in to Jim at WCR, because I know a Shredder neck will solve my problems.

But meanwhile, let's say I'm searching for an overall Seth-type neck tone, but with noticeably more volume and a bit more cut/presence. Will a Seth with A4 or A8 help me at all? Any other pups I should try? (BTW, I've tried a number of bridge pups in the neck, including Seth, 59, and A2P. All increased the volume but made the tone too dark).

Any help appreciated!
 
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Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

maybe a seth bridge in the neck slot? it'll add a bit more beef 'n' cut like you want
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

Have you tried an Antiquity in the neck ? Very similiar to the Seth with a little more heat.
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

super rad ska said:
maybe a seth bridge in the neck slot? it'll add a bit more beef 'n' cut like you want
Click to expand...

itll add more beef and volume but there will probably be less cut since there will be less high end.

i dont know if youll find exactly what you want, a higher output paf isnt really a paf anymore. the reason they sound as sweet as they do is partly to do with the lower output.

im not familiar with the shredder, but why do you need a high output bridge pup to get duanes tone? a 59b into a raging 50w marshall with d120's should get you there
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

Why not just get the Darkburst set? Those are supposed to be WCR's homage to Duane, similar to Seymour's Pearly Gates/Gibbons thing.
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

I think based on the magnet demo in the tips and clips room, I'd try a Seth A8.... definately more volume.
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

Well what I don't understand is...honestly I see a "shredder" miles away from a ABB or Duane tone. With 59b , WCR DB or Filmore f.e. or PG-B? you are in the southern range ... but I cd be wrong you may have found yr thing.
Info: I have a PGneck and I recommend to go for a PGNeck 2nd hand.
Btw I am abt ordering my first WCR for southern rock it will be Darkburst.
(I also have 2 old 59b /MJ/L and SethLover Neck).
To tame the shredder ... lower it and it cd balance better !
good luck!
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

d1dsj said:
I think based on the magnet demo in the tips and clips room, I'd try a Seth A8.... definately more volume.
Click to expand...

Don't do A8 in your neck pu -- it's a strong mag and will cut sustain a bit. Just this side of sounding like a fretless guitar anyway if you raise it up close to the strings...
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

My first thought for a Les Paul neck pup with more bite and output than a Seth was a Pearly Gates. The PGn is fantastic in a LP. But it won't give you any more output than the pups you've already tried.

I'm not familiar with the Shredder but I just googled it and it seems it has 16K DC resistance. That seems pretty hot for Allman Bros tones. Maybe you should be looking at a lower output bridge pickup rather than a higher output neck pickup?
 
Re: Seth Lover neck but with more volume - suggestions?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions! To answer a few topics posed in the thread:

- My needs might be a bit unique, because I never play at anywhere near the volume of, say, a 50W or 100W Marshall head. I play with two drummers who have serious jazz chops and can play heavy AND quiet at the same time. The rig I use with them is a stock '66 Blackface Princeton (yes, just 12 watts and 1x10") with volume set at about 5. That gives me a warm but fairly clean tone, then I use various pedals to get dirt. Currently using a Keeley flexi-mod TS-9.

So I look for strong, FAT tone from my guitars, to hit that thing hard when needed. I can definitely get Allman-type tone with such a rig, but every component has to be just right. It turns out that in this particular Les Paul, a WCR Shredder gets me squarely into Duane Allman territory on the bridge.

- Don't be fooled by the 16K D.C. resistance of the Shredder. Jim's pickups are not structured the same as other PAF-style pups. For example, Jim's Fillmore bridge pup is 13.5K but designed to nail Duane's Fillmore East tone (among others). The Shredder, IMO, has a very unfortunate name. It's a much warmer, smoother pickup than the name would imply. I've installed them in PRS, McInturff, Gibson and Fender guitars, and in every case the result was fat, warm and smooth, with that Stormy Monday "honk" that everyone is chasing. To my ears it is not all that far from a Fillmore, but I prefer it by a small margin. YMMV.

- I did try a PG neck and PG bridge. I like them both, but they're too thin for this guitar.

- Jeremy was right about trying bridge pups in the neck. In this application they didn't have quite enough cut. Usually I love the sound of a bridge PAF-type pup in the neck. But this time they couldn't hold up to the Shredder bridge. The exception was an Antiquity, which I tried as suggested. A hot bridge Ant. (8.78K) actually sounded beautiful, and ended up being my second choice.

- I did try a 59 neck and 59 bridge, as well as each of them with A2 mags. With the A2 they lost all character and had no balls. With the stock A5, they are just too gritty and edgy for my taste in a Les Paul. I love 'em in an SG or even a 335, but just too much grit in my Les Pauls.

- Zhangliqun suggested not trying an A8 in the neck. I tried it anyway, just because I never had before ... and as usual he was right on the money! I found no useful tones whatsoever with an A8 in any of the neck pickups I experimented with.

The pickup that nailed what I was after finally came out of left field ----- the Ernie Ball EVH/Axis pickup, made by DiMarzio and simply labeled as "N2". It's not for sale outside of Ernie Ball's guitars. I always thought they were great pickups, and when I found a couple of stray sets for sale many years ago, I grabbed them. After all my experimenting, I looked at which components had helped or hurt the quest, and the results pointed to something designed to deliver high output with good string separation, but retain a strong PAF vibe. And that's what the Ernie Ball EVH guitar sounds like.

Anyway, that's the pickup that did the trick. It sounds like a PG with more output, lots of bite without any grit, and better string separation. It balances perfectly with the Shredder, and a bonus is that the middle position is the cleanest, clearest Les Paul tone I could imagine.

While I was at it, I tried the EVH bridge pickup in the bridge in place of the Shredder. It was very close to the Shredder, a bit less midrange beef and maybe a bit sharper attack. I could be very happy with just the EVH set in this guitar, but the Shredder neck gets me a little further toward my goal.

Obviously this is not the right solution for everyone! But just to let you know that I'm not completley nuts, I have another R8 with a pair of Seths which have made that guitar one of my favorites. OTOH, my R7 ended up wtih a pair of Shredders. The two really don't sound all that much different, and the Seth guitar is actually edgier and brighter. That's why I spend so much time swapping pickups; there's no way of knowing which guitar/pup combinations will deliver the magic.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Hope this book (haha) helps some of y'all with your tone quests!
 
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