Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

[flmason]

Hi All,
Been debating Seth Lover vrs. JB.

Years ago, I found most high output pickups to be one trick ponies and went back to the then standard Gibson humbucker of the early 70's that came with the guitar. Decided high output pickups (Invader and Super Distortion in those tests) weren't for me. Basically when you turn them down they sound dead for softer/cleaner tones (to me anyway).

So's fast forward to 2010, thinking about putting a 'bucker in a strat. Would like to get convincing 80's metal tones without "fizz", but am still afraid of high output pickups. JB's seem OK in quick tests at the local Guitar Center, but still gunshy.

Am wondering if a Seth Lover can be pushed into the "Hair Band" range successfully? Or is it a case of "need two guitars"?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

The seth lover is a fantastic pickup, but since it is not potted it will squeal under fairly high gain. If you want to stay with standard production humbuckers with vintage output there are some options. Strats tend to be bright to begin with, so do you like a bright bridge pickup? If so, a 59' or even a Screamin' Demon will get you in the ballpark.

I prefer A2 magnets for strats, to help tame the highs and match better with the wood. APH II humbucker or a Pearly Gates will get you there also. My absolute favorite humbucker for 80's metal in a strat, The Custom Custom. Even though it is higher output than a traditional PAF, it still retains a lot of the PAF qualities. It plays clean well and it sounds great with a ton of gain.

If you are going to make your strat H/H go CC-APH II and you will love your strat for a long, long time. You will get a lot of different opinions, but that's the set I have in my double fat strat and they aren't going anywhere.

Good luck.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

Most of it has to do with the amp, but I still don't think a Seth is what you're looking for....and I like them for some things, but 80's metal isn't one of them.

The 59, Custom 5, and Custom are probably what you're looking for, since they're more balanced sounding rock pickups than the midrangey JB or the Seth, which is soft on the lows and unpotted.

 

[flmason]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

Interesting points.

Think the EVH pickup would split the difference? Thing is, I'd like to be able to do like I used to be able to do with my old Flying V a DS-1 and a JCM-800, which was to cover a lot of tones just with the volume and tone controls on the guitar.

Will probably be just doing digital recording, so feedback isn't a real issue. Would probably pay to have a Seth potted if I went that way, though.

Problem with the EVH is that I don't want to be stuck with nothing but a VH1 sound.

Have to admit, I've always had best luck for versatility with the vintage pickups. Example, the Vintage Broadcaster worked very well for me for single coil sounds.

Still gunshy about high output pickups after all these years, and well, digital painfully emphasises fizz it seems.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

You didn't mention which guitar, but the Custom 5 is usually a safe bet for the player who wants cleans, heavy rock, to metal. It's a 14.4K pickup, so it has balls, but it's voiced like a typical A5 59b type sound.

I'd start with the Custom 5, since most players find that it sounds good, and if they don't, you can simply start swapping magnets till you nail the tone you're looking for. The Custom wind takes well to magnet changes, because every magnet sounds good in it.

And the reason Gibson and Seymour Duncan arrived at 14.4K for a rock pickup is because that's the point where a pickup with balls retains it's definition. When you go past that in a lot of cases, you get compression, harshness, grittiness, or noise.

 

[Virtual Kevorkian]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

I've gigged with a semi-hollow Hamer that had a set of Seth Lovers in it - never had any issue with feedback or squealing. With proper muting technique and a solid noise gate, you'd be set.

Unfortunately, the pickups get really mushy under high gain/fast riffing - I'd go with the CC or C5 instead.

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

this may not be what you want to hear
but the JB is the classic rock sound

EDIT
it does want to be at a particular height tho
or it just doesnt sound good

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

I remember myself getting a cool Whitesnake 1987 type of tone with the Custom 5. I enjoyed it a lot. You know Children of the Night etc.

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

Try a JB2? I have opposite luck... I find higher output pickups more versatile. If you have a good one, they retain clarity. I don't like the distortion or invader though fwiw.

I like the JB2 though...

 

[jmh151]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

IMO, the JB is the quintessential 80's tone. If you plug a JB in a strat through a Marshall, you will cop about 85% of 80's tones. For the neck position a '59 is good.

I have a recent Charvel Pro Mod with a JB/59 combo, and that guitar nails the 80's tones.

I tried the Fender/EVH Frankenstein replica pickup, which is allegedly made by Seymour Duncan. It was too soft and spongy in an alder bodied Charvel, my guess is it really needs an ash body

 

[oilpit]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

I've gigged with a semi-hollow Hamer that had a set of Seth Lovers in it - never had any issue with feedback or squealing.

This...

Don't let potted vs. not influence your descision. I've got a Les Paul with some Shed PAF replicas, no wax In the equation at all, and I can go up to Metallica levels of gain and only get squeal if I stand directly in front of the amp.

I really don't understand people that complain about potting/feedback (with solid body guitars anyway)

 

[Stef]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

59
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=894154&songID=9326706

 

[pzaxtl]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

Well, if Benjy_26 hasn't chimed in yet, I'm going to toss out the Custom Shop's "S-Deco" model. A moderately hot bridge pickup that can really sizzle and cook! It has a tone under grain that screams hairmetal. That pickup will always stay within my stable of pickups.

 

[flmason]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

this may not be what you want to hear
but the JB is the classic rock sound

EDIT
it does want to be at a particular height tho
or it just doesnt sound good

LOL! Doesn't matter what I want to hear, it's about what folks have experienced. I'm not wedded to any particular pickup, just trying not to have to go through a lot of swaps, if I can avoid it.

Ideally I want the sound of a vintage PAF when turned down, but want to be able to get an even hair band distortion at guitar volume 10, and ideal through the middle volumes get the EVH, Billy Gibbons, and other classic rock tones.

Was able to get close to that years ago with a stock 70's Gibson bucker + Boss DS-1, but the sustain for leads was always not quite there. Of course now 30 years in retrospect... a delay pedal might have helped, LOL!

But anyway, the high gainers I tried back then were one trick ponies.

 

[flmason]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

IMO, the JB is the quintessential 80's tone. If you plug a JB in a strat through a Marshall, you will cop about 85% of 80's tones. For the neck position a '59 is good.

I have a recent Charvel Pro Mod with a JB/59 combo, and that guitar nails the 80's tones.

I tried the Fender/EVH Frankenstein replica pickup, which is allegedly made by Seymour Duncan. It was too soft and spongy in an alder bodied Charvel, my guess is it really needs an ash body

In thinking about it, I wouldn't doubt that the bands of the era probably actually used that setup quite often.

It's the rolled back sound of a JB I'm wondering about.

 

[flmason]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

59
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=894154&songID=9326706

Bit a fizz at the top, but pretty close to what I'm thinking. Care if I download that track and put an equalizer to it for fun?

The EVH parts made me grin.

Is it my imagination or was Seth the man?

BTW, what are the tech details? What pots, guitar, wiring, etc.?

Was that a real 800? Sounds a bit like a mid 80's 800 with Celestion 75's and 6550's but not certain, heck could be a sim for all I know... haven't jacked into an 800 since the 90's.

 

[flmason]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

The seth lover is a fantastic pickup, but since it is not potted it will squeal under fairly high gain. If you want to stay with standard production humbuckers with vintage output there are some options. Strats tend to be bright to begin with, so do you like a bright bridge pickup? If so, a 59' or even a Screamin' Demon will get you in the ballpark.

I prefer A2 magnets for strats, to help tame the highs and match better with the wood. APH II humbucker or a Pearly Gates will get you there also. My absolute favorite humbucker for 80's metal in a strat, The Custom Custom. Even though it is higher output than a traditional PAF, it still retains a lot of the PAF qualities. It plays clean well and it sounds great with a ton of gain.

If you are going to make your strat H/H go CC-APH II and you will love your strat for a long, long time. You will get a lot of different opinions, but that's the set I have in my double fat strat and they aren't going anywhere.

Good luck.

Geez, TrampStamp girl is a goddess... what's with this "skank" stuff? LOL!

Yes, I was considering the Seth because it's an A2 pickup. Since I mostly mess around with amp sims, output level isn't too important, and my Marshall combo has plenty of gain on tap. Thing is, fizz sucks, so too much high end is a problem with bright pickups... but not enough and it's mud when you turn down.

 

[Khriss Bliss]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

I know Eddie used an overwound PAF type pkup, so the screamin demon and evh make sense. But after 2 long years of trying to get the La metal ratt/dokken, crue/qriot tone, I discovered the jb, which was like instant eyeliner and hairspray, plus it's fairly versatile- billy idol songs where Steve Stevens riffs are jb. So I'd say tone down a jb for other used, but forget goosing up a custom or seth to " cover" metal, to me they're too versatile, rounded, vintage. When I first heard jbs in the 80., it sorta announced metal had arrived- accept no substitutes. JakeELee, Crosby/ Demartini, BradGillis, Mustaine/Friedman, and if the SH6 Dist=JB ceramic, add GeoLynch, RandyRhoads... These guys weren't messin around, neither should you. So I vote JB w/thumbs, honorable mention Screamin Demon, EVH. But REALLY you need a 2nd guitar... I spent all nite memorizing the sd audio samples- hands down Seth has alot over pg,ap2,59, & the demon isn't THAT hairmetally, rather it is browner, vintage, IF the audio samples are any gauge. But the Custom doesn't hold up... It rocks, but metal, it ain't.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

As strange as this sounds, I'd give the Seth a chance.

I have an 85 Kramer with a stock JB in the bridge, and 2000 Gibson Flying V with a Seth neck (yes, neck, and with 500k pots) in the bridge (the last owner put it in).

Y'know what: the V with the Seth N sounds surprisingly good, and it's clarity might be better for hair-metal than the JB, despite the JB's history as THE pickup in the 1980s.

Yes, one is an alder superstrat with a Floyd, and the other is a mahogany set-neck, so YMMV.

 

[Khriss Bliss]

Re: Seth Lover OK for Hair Metal?

But I should add, maybe a custom/jb hybrid (see bachtorock thread) is what you want. I know what you mean about rolled off paf, zztop, classicrock. Myself, I'd play like zep, or acdc with a jb with confidence, but I should mention, you can't put it too near the strings. ( I use sh6, and dmarz sd on another;they need to be screwed fairly low, away from the strings to eliminate fizz or honk). I'll also add, bcuz my friend will chop my head off if I don't, that Eddie could prob make a Seth sound like Eddie, cuz used a paf, but the new evh is more popular than 78, I'm guessin bcuz a) it's awesome, but also b)it's easier for people who don't pick and fret like Ed to sound like vh. NonVH metal though is another story.
(pssst-find a 2nd guitar and get the Seth, yknow u wanna...and your listeners will enjoy the variety. )