SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark guita

[Maiakaat]

Hi

I've been planning some upgrades to my Epiphone LP Plustop-Pro, it has a very dark sound, and I don't like the neck much.

The problem with the Probucker 2 is that I found the bottom end messy and poorly defined and over the top, with a lack of midrange balance, and OK but unremarkable highs. I appear to dislike overly scooped humbuckers for example the EQ profile of the Jazz style pickups. I'm changing the electronics in Feb, but may initially just replace the neck, but I will be replacing both eventually.

I really liked the sound of the pearly gates neck, but have read its probably not a well matched combination (the Custom Hybrid 59 - SH-16) - according to some respected people on this and other forums.


I also liked the Saturday Night Special, and a few others with similar tones (to be honest on regular headphones I couldn't really hear much difference beyond some subtle niceness on the higher strings - whatever you would call that.

I want the pickup to have a tighter bottom end, but retain some of the higher tonal aspects consistent with an Alnico 2 as much as possible, but have a usable coil split, and not have a disproportionately scooped midrange.

I guess if I were to have a big budget I would buy a Maple neck SG, with some as yet unknown pickup combinations, but for now a brighter toned pickup combination, that work reasonably well together, and without losing all the bottom end on the pickup in the neck will have to do, I don't want to completely lose the character of a mahogany body humbucker equipped guitar.

Thanks

 

[Ben1962]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi and welcome to the forum. Dont read too much into the "scooped" thing, the jazz neck is awesome. If you're in the States, you have a period to try them and return if not happy. I have a slew of Epi Les Pauls, but your guitar may vary in sound from mine. The Sentient is marketed with 2 metal pickups, but its awesome as well. Any of the combos you have listed will sound great and a big step up from those Probuckers IMO

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

I’d also suggest that when you change the electronics to make sure you’re using 500K pots.
I might not be correct but I seem to recall reading something g about Epi’s having 300K pots from the factory?
The 500K should brighten it up some.
And typically the Jazz neck is considered a brighter pickup.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi yes the Sentient was on a shortlist of five, and started at the top of that list. I backed off because they were difficult to directly compare, but i was and am impressed with it.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Dark sounding Les Paul, PGn is not the way to go.

You give it this Dark Sounding Characteristic due to what it sounds like unplugged, right? I ask because it could just be the pickups. Now pickup combinations have become a major factor for me in Les Pauls. I like a lot of clarity and when switching in lead parts, I like to maintain articulation. Although I loved the PGn in a Les Paul I have, It did not work in another. I have no experience with SNSn, but was looking into for myself because of it's description on Duncan's site.

For tight lows and bright Neck pickup, the FullShred neck might be the way to go. The Jazz neck failed me in combination with both 59b and Screaming' Demon. These may be better suited for Tele's. as far as a rounder full bridge, I usually go scooped in the bridge and like 59's and pickups like that. I have no experience with the Hybrid you mentioned, so you might be onto something there. as I read your post, I thought straight up Custom or maybe even a Slash or APII.

So all I can say is most successful Neck Pickups in LP's for me have been: 59n, FSn, Screamin Demon, PGn (but in maple neck LP) and the StagMag.

hope some of this helps? I might have just made things worse, sorry.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi yes I'm sure one pot was stamped 500k, but they measured 242k all of the cavity electronics are being replaced.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Dark sounding Les Paul, PGn is not the way to go.

You give it this Dark Sounding Characteristic due to what it sounds like unplugged, right? I ask because it could just be the pickups. Now pickup combinations have become a major factor for me in Les Pauls. I like a lot of clarity and when switching in lead parts, I like to maintain articulation. Although I loved the PGn in a Les Paul I have, It did not work in another. I have no experience with SNSn, but was looking into for myself because of it's description on Duncan's site.

For tight lows and bright Neck pickup, the FullShred neck might be the way to go. The Jazz neck failed me in combination with both 59b and Screaming' Demon. These may be better suited for Tele's. as far as a rounder full bridge, I usually go scooped in the bridge and like 59's and pickups like that. I have no experience with the Hybrid you mentioned, so you might be onto something there. as I read your post, I thought straight up Custom or maybe even a Slash or APII.

So all I can say is most successful Neck Pickups in LP's for me have been: 59n, FSn, Screamin Demon, PGn (but in maple neck LP) and the StagMag.

hope some of this helps? I might have just made things worse, sorry.

Hi thanks for the reply, for details ill respond with my shortlist and thoughts on what you said tomorrow. (Its midnight here) i actually have a shortlist, I'm on my phone in bed and the suggestions justify a more in depth response.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi yes I'm sure one pot was stamped 500k, but they measured 242k all of the cavity electronics are being replaced.

If that’s what they measured then they are 500K. There is always some +\- tolerance.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Dark sounding Les Paul, PGn is not the way to go.

You give it this Dark Sounding Characteristic due to what it sounds like unplugged, right? I ask because it could just be the pickups. Now pickup combinations have become a major factor for me in Les Pauls. I like a lot of clarity and when switching in lead parts, I like to maintain articulation. Although I loved the PGn in a Les Paul I have, It did not work in another. I have no experience with SNSn, but was looking into for myself because of it's description on Duncan's site.

For tight lows and bright Neck pickup, the FullShred neck might be the way to go. The Jazz neck failed me in combination with both 59b and Screaming' Demon. These may be better suited for Tele's. as far as a rounder full bridge, I usually go scooped in the bridge and like 59's and pickups like that. I have no experience with the Hybrid you mentioned, so you might be onto something there. as I read your post, I thought straight up Custom or maybe even a Slash or APII.

So all I can say is most successful Neck Pickups in LP's for me have been: 59n, FSn, Screamin Demon, PGn (but in maple neck LP) and the StagMag.

hope some of this helps? I might have just made things worse, sorry.

Hi

Yeah I'm a beginner (I brought the Epi Les Paul as it seemed a safe bet and a versatile guitar. when I get better I will pair it with a Mexican Strat with a sustainer in the neck, and maybe something like a Lace Gold/Tex-mex in the middle, or something like that)

Its only been used at home. I'm into alt rock, elements of funk/jazz, ambient, and non-EDM electronica infused rock (or vice versa).

I usually listen through Amplitube 4 deluxe into line in on a starter amp - which sounds terrible, though I often use headphones from the Amplitube 4 when I feel I need something nicer to get me to practice.

My practice tones of choice are

1. The default clean American Tube - on headphones I can get a really nice tone on the upper strings via the neck pickup, it involved adjusting the pole pieces pretty much consistent with the way the Stag Mag is adjusted though I did it by ear. The middle can get a nice tone too, I'm not sure how to describe it, but it works well, again on the upper strings.

2. The Jet City amp crunch tones, usually in the middle setting the guitar.

3. On high gain usually via the Bridge, with some tone rolled of, as the neck sounds terrible under any sort of gain, I can't get any bottom end on the neck to sound good even with something like a G5, where I've paid close attention to the pressure on each string to get it resonant. There are a few amps but (I think) the EVH offers the most distinct tone for lead or 2-4 string open 5 chords.

I'm getting a Vox AV30 and some pedals later this year

I don't mind the bridge being slightly scooped, but I've pretty much rolled off the volume on the lower few strings by adjusting the neck pickup height, it sounds that bad to me, and even the clean tone on the lows and low mids is at best OK.

I had a shortlist for the neck and bridge. (most of those you mentioned are on it)

Neck

Pearly Gates (sounded like a really nice tone on website - but worried about coil tap due to low output)
Sentient (hard to compare, but really liked the clarity, and probably has a more usable coil tap)
Saturday Night Special Nice, again coil tap might not be great - can't find an example on a mahogany guitar
Slash Neck (no good because its 2 conductor, but sounded good)
Alnico II Pro (not bad)


Bridge

Hybrid Custom 59 (Exactly what I was looking for with the coil tap, liked the sound, liked that it offered a noticeable contrast in its mid response, only concern is matching it with a neck pickup, and how well it responds to volume changes)
Slash (This bridge pickup really stood out, but sadly only 2 conductor)
Saturday Night Special (again I liked the bridge almost as good as the slash, but not quite enough to shift me on the hybrid custom)
Pegasus (Seemed like a SD version of a common Gibson pickup, good but I probably prefer others)


With the neck, in response to the issues I have with scooped pickups, of all the pickups I auditions, I seemed to specifically dislike scooped pickups, especially in the neck. Every pickup I auditioned seemed to have a middle which was not far off the level of the bass, with a present top end, not as loud as some of the scooped pickups. It could be I am listening to the wrong things, but it didn't seem to do it for me. I'm interested in trying 50's wiring, but it seems like the modern might be too loose with modern and Alnico II's, and 50's might lose too much bottom end on the neck.

In the bridge I also liked a variation where the middle and top were louder, but not as extreme as some trembuckers, and metal bridge pickups

I will give them a listen again, but the EQ data for all the pickups I liked was very consistent, and distinct from the Jazz-type Neck pickups, or those with really scooped midranges.

When I install new 500k pots and wiring I am putting a temporary cavity toggle switch in to audition 50's vs modern wiring, at a later point I may put in a passive high pass too on a new tone push-pull, this might give me some scope to put a neck pickup in that maybe a bit too much on an unmodified signal, but which might sound OK with a little bit of low end rolloff. I posted a circuit on another forum. This would probably combine the 50's and modern wiring too.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

I am 4 years in, a newb at guitar I guess compared to some here. Dont worry too much about people saying this will work or that will work. Your amp has plenty of knobs to turn, doesnt it? Remember, some of these comments are people splitting hairs and with the reference of being heard over other members in their bands. Same with the demos on youtube, they are OK but dont think they will be your results at home. Just have fun with it and use YOUR ears

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

I am 4 years in, a newb at guitar I guess compared to some here. Dont worry too much about people saying this will work or that will work. Your amp has plenty of knobs to turn, doesnt it? Remember, some of these comments are people splitting hairs and with the reference of being heard over other members in their bands. Same with the demos on youtube, they are OK but dont think they will be your results at home. Just have fun with it and use YOUR ears

Good advise. It’s always beneficial to ask other with experience their thoughts on a given piece of gear but at the end of the day it only matteres if it works for the end user.

 

[audiocheck]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Well since you state you are a beginner, you may want to slow down on mods. I often find many people get caught up in the gear thinking it is gonna catapult their tone by leaps and bounds. It will not. More that 75% of your tone is in your hands. You have a decent guitar, and will be acquiring a decent amp soon. I will say biggest improvement on any Epiphone is replacing the electronics. I'm not sure you will find much improvement or use for having 50's wiring on demand with a switch. that right there is splitting hairs. Gut the electronics, replace with some standard Duncans and work on your technique when plugged into an amp. A set of 59's of APII's and replacement pots and caps will take Epi well into professional guitar player territory.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Well since you state you are a beginner, you may want to slow down on mods. I often find many people get caught up in the gear thinking it is gonna catapult their tone by leaps and bounds. It will not. More that 75% of your tone is in your hands. You have a decent guitar, and will be acquiring a decent amp soon. I will say biggest improvement on any Epiphone is replacing the electronics. I'm not sure you will find much improvement or use for having 50's wiring on demand with a switch. that right there is splitting hairs. Gut the electronics, replace with some standard Duncans and work on your technique when plugged into an amp. A set of 59's of APII's and replacement pots and caps will take Epi well into professional guitar player territory.

Hi i know i got caught up a bit since looking at tone, it sounds OK mostly. I know tone is about technique, that and the amp more than pickups.

I was recommended to try the alternative wiring, the switch just made experimenting easier in the short term.

I guess i just want to feel motivated by the tone more in the neck than im getting at present. I'm leaning towards just replacing the neck with a second hand version of one of those in the same ballpark ie a2pro sns or sentient. I was planning to not change the electronics until a year after getting the amp, so i know im being a bit premature, bit since ive decided to swap the electronics i may as well do the neck too

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi, you've actually made my mind up. When i change the pots im going to put the high pass in, as long as it works ok with the pb2, im going to get the Alnico 2 pro neck, to have an option to manage its bottom end. Its listed as compatible with the custom cuztom, so it should be ok with a future bridge update to the custom hybrid. Itll be a few months before i pick it up, but its not too expensive and i can post back once its all done

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Don’t be a stranger here on the forum!! Come on in, the water is fine!

 

[audiocheck]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi, you've actually made my mind up. When i change the pots im going to put the high pass in, as long as it works ok with the pb2, im going to get the Alnico 2 pro neck, to have an option to manage its bottom end. Its listed as compatible with the custom cuztom, so it should be ok with a future bridge update to the custom hybrid. Itll be a few months before i pick it up, but its not too expensive and i can post back once its all done

Yeah go 500K pots. The high pass will help on the Neck as well. There is also something called a No Load Pot and you can use that as the tone pot. It will remover the tone control from the circuit all together once its on 10. it works like a standard tone know below 10. all that will get you the brightest the neck pickup can be.

Enjoy!!

 

[Ben1962]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Hi, you've actually made my mind up. When i change the pots im going to put the high pass in, as long as it works ok with the pb2, im going to get the Alnico 2 pro neck, to have an option to manage its bottom end. Its listed as compatible with the custom cuztom, so it should be ok with a future bridge update to the custom hybrid. Itll be a few months before i pick it up, but its not too expensive and i can post back once its all done

You care about your tone, thats awesome. I have like 10 different sets of pickups LOL

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

Don’t be a stranger here on the forum!! Come on in, the water is fine!

I've been really surprised by the goodwill on this and another forum, so I'm going to try to get into the habit of visiting regularly. I've struggled to get engagement on another general purpose (mixing and production/gear) site, but the online guitar community has been awesome.

I look forward to learning what I can, and if and when possible, helping others.

 

[Maiakaat]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

You care about your tone, that's awesome. I have like 10 different sets of pickups LOL

I'm never going to be more than an average player, but getting ideas, technique and tone right (from experience with virtual piano + cheap hammer action master keyboard, and toying with one or two virtual synths) has been very rewarding by way of enjoyment.

10 sets wow, if I had the cash and justification I think I'd have maybe 5-6 guitars, each with different pickup combinations. I'd add a red archtop with P-rails, a MIM 3 tone Strat with sustainer and vmod middle and bridge, a red or walnut Gibson SG tribute, A white Jazzmaster, and a butterscotch MIM or Classic Vibe Tele, with an equivalent to the vmod neck, and a fatter bridge than the Strat. (edit it might not be called vmod the hybrid pickups in a strat)

I think a decent affordable pair of reverb and delay pedals (£100 each), a Boss MD-500, and maybe something like the Boss BD-2 are probably where future money should be spent for me - beyond a decent amp.

 

[Ben1962]

Re: SH-16 Custom Hybrid with Saturday Night Special Neck, would this work on a dark g

I'm never going to be more than an average player, but getting ideas, technique and tone right (from experience with virtual piano + cheap hammer action master keyboard, and toying with one or two virtual synths) has been very rewarding by way of enjoyment.

10 sets wow, if I had the cash and justification I think I'd have maybe 5-6 guitars, each with different pickup combinations. I'd add a red archtop with P-rails, a MIM 3 tone Strat with sustainer and vmod middle and bridge, a red or walnut Gibson SG tribute, A white Jazzmaster, and a butterscotch MIM or Classic Vibe Tele, with an equivalent to the vmod neck, and a fatter bridge than the Strat. (edit it might not be called vmod the hybrid pickups in a strat)

I think a decent affordable pair of reverb and delay pedals (£100 each), a Boss MD-500, and maybe something like the Boss BD-2 are probably where future money should be spent for me - beyond a decent amp.

I have too many guitars. Kinda crazy really

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk