Should I swap my Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates neck pickup for a DiMarzio Liquifire?

[FerMetalhead1]

Hi everyone! I have a modified economic version of the Washburn Nuno Bettencourt signature guitar, made out of BASSWOOD, but with a MAPLE/ROSEWOOD neck/fretboard. I wanted this guitar to be a perfect axe for rock/metal, but with a touch of versatility.

It formerly had a six point tremolo, but I modified it and change it for a Schaller FR type tremolo.

I changed the bridge pickup, too. It used to have a SD 59/Custom Hybrid, but I changed it for a DiMarzio Super Distortion due to lack of power, now my axe really rocks! I haven't changed the neck pickup, a SD Pearly Gates, because I'm pretty much happy with its warmness and fullness in lower frequencies, but it's a bit too bright for my taste in higher frequencies, though. I use it mainly for hi-gain metal guitar solos, but I tend to use it for cleaner stuff like chord strumming.

I was considering swapping it for a DiMarzio LiquiFire pup since I heard really good reviews about it in terms of hi-gain soloing, but I'm afraid I could lose some versatility if I do it. However, I don't mind losing some clarity in higher frequencies. What do you think? I'm open to suggestions, mainly in Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio.

Edit: Many of you have already given me many good suggestions, but I still look forward to hear more.

 

[TVFV]

You could use another SD in the neck. Add a switch to either split the SD or put it in parallel when you to want clean it up.

 

[jeremy]

welcome to the forum!

never tried a liquifire so cant comment there. do you want more output or just a smoother high end?

 

[FerMetalhead1]

You could use another SD in the neck. Add a switch to either split the SD or put it in parallel when you to want clean it up.

I forgot to mention that my guitar already has a push-pull pot. I'm not a big fan of splitting humbuckers, but I do consider putting them in parallel. Also, I would rather have a different pup that the SD for neck because I feel it very compressed and with very high output for being in that position. I mean for bridge is perfect for my musical style, but for the neck I was looking for something middy as well, but with more articulation, less compression and less high end.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Going from the PG to a Liquifire will be a big change. Yes, you'll get slightly smoother top-end, but you'll also lose some of the bottom and gain a gigantic truckload of mids, plus far more output overall. For reference, the closest thing DiMarzio make to a PG is the PAF Pro, if you swapped the A5 magnet for an A2. (In fact Seymour Duncan made the 'Pearly Gates Plus', which is a slightly hotter PG with an A5 magnet, for Fender to use in some of their guitars which had previously had PAF Pros in, when Fender's deal with DiMarzio ran out.) So if you look up the PAF Pro and look up the Liquifire, then consider the PG is even more 'PAFy' than the PAF Pro, you can quickly see how much of a huge change you'd be making.

If you like the general tone and feel of the PG but just want to knock off the 'Texas sizzle' that SD designed it for, you'll probably like the simple Alnico II Pro. They're very similar, just the A2P is a little calmer and the high-end doesn't scream out at you like the PG can. The Pearly Gates Bridge also has a slightly fuller sound and smoothed treble than the neck model; the Jazz Bridge also accomplishes this but with less mids. In the DiMarzio world, the Rainmaker Neck and Steve Morse Neck will give you a sound and feel that is certainly a little hotter and mids-heavy than the PG but not quite as much of a departure as the Liquifire is. Their PAF Master Bridge and PAF 59 Bridge will give you something more like the PG already is, just with the extreme top-end rolled off a little bit.

That's not to say the Liquifire is entirely wrong, just that it sounds like you are mostly happy with the PG, so changing to something that different is not what I would start off considering. I like the Liquifire but it's an extremely different beast to the PG.

edit: okay, now you're going for "more articulation" and "less compression"... well, you can't get any less compressed than the PG already is. Arguably the Seth Lover and the A2P are a little more dynamic, but not by much and with some amps they can actually feel 'stiffer' without the wider treble clarity of the PG. You're not going to get less compression by swapping to any kind of A5 pickup. For articulation the obvious choices are the Full Shred, Sentient and Jazz, but again they're A5 and, you guessed it, are a bit more compressed. The PAF Master Bridge I mentioned above is a fraction more compressed than the PG, but not much, and it certainly is a little more articulate.
Also, if you go for "something middy", you won't be getting more articulation and less compression. Mids are what drive your amp hardest, and especially in the case of a really mids-focused pickup like the Liquifire, you get a very compressed feel under distortion. As a general rule of thumb if you want something more articulate and less compressed then that means dropping output, dropping mids, and having more high-end... which you don't want. That leaves you with a very limited number of pickup choices and, again, I'll put forward the Alnico II Pro as being your best bet. It's a little more open than the PG and the top-end is smoothed out, but it's no more articulate and the mids are about the same.

 

[FerMetalhead1]

welcome to the forum!

never tried a liquifire so cant comment there. do you want more output or just a smoother high end?

Thanks, Jeremy!

I am looking for a balance between both, with high enough output to keep up with the Super Distortion and a very middy/bassy sound for great lead tones, but versatile enough to have great cleans as well.

 

[Bill Dennis]

I forgot to mention that my guitar already has a push-pull pot. I'm not a big fan of splitting humbuckers, but I do consider putting them in parallel. Also, I would rather have a different pup that the SD for neck because I feel it very compressed and with very high output for being in that position. I mean for bridge is perfect for my musical style, but for the neck I was looking for something middy as well, but with more articulation, less compression and less high end.

Pg's are rather low output actually.

Middy/bass will not give you great cleans. Polar opposites actually. Petrucci has the best neck lead tone. Get what he uses

 

[FerMetalhead1]

Going from the PG to a Liquifire will be a big change. Yes, you'll get slightly smoother top-end, but you'll also lose some of the bottom and gain a gigantic truckload of mids, plus far more output overall. For reference, the closest thing DiMarzio make to a PG is the PAF Pro, if you swapped the A5 magnet for an A2. (In fact Seymour Duncan made the 'Pearly Gates Plus', which is a slightly hotter PG with an A5 magnet, for Fender to use in some of their guitars which had previously had PAF Pros in, when Fender's deal with DiMarzio ran out.) So if you look up the PAF Pro and look up the Liquifire, then consider the PG is even more 'PAFy' than the PAF Pro, you can quickly see how much of a huge change you'd be making.

If you like the general tone and feel of the PG but just want to knock off the 'Texas sizzle' that SD designed it for, you'll probably like the simple Alnico II Pro. They're very similar, just the A2P is a little calmer and the high-end doesn't scream out at you like the PG can. The Pearly Gates Bridge also has a slightly fuller sound and smoothed treble than the neck model; the Jazz Bridge also accomplishes this but with less mids. In the DiMarzio world, the Rainmaker Neck and Steve Morse Neck will give you a sound and feel that is certainly a little hotter and mids-heavy than the PG but not quite as much of a departure as the Liquifire is. Their PAF Master Bridge and PAF 59 Bridge will give you something more like the PG already is, just with the extreme top-end rolled off a little bit.

That's not to say the Liquifire is entirely wrong, just that it sounds like you are mostly happy with the PG, so changing to something that different is not what I would start off considering. I like the Liquifire but it's an extremely different beast to the PG.

edit: okay, now you're going for "more articulation" and "less compression"... well, you can't get any less compressed than the PG already is. Arguably the Seth Lover and the A2P are a little more dynamic, but not by much and with some amps they can actually feel 'stiffer' without the wider treble clarity of the PG. You're not going to get less compression by swapping to any kind of A5 pickup. For articulation the obvious choices are the Full Shred, Sentient and Jazz, but again they're A5 and, you guessed it, are a bit more compressed. The PAF Master Bridge I mentioned above is a fraction more compressed than the PG, but not much, and it certainly is a little more articulate.
Also, if you go for "something middy", you won't be getting more articulation and less compression. Mids are what drive your amp hardest, and especially in the case of a really mids-focused pickup like the Liquifire, you get a very compressed feel under distortion. As a general rule of thumb if you want something more articulate and less compressed then that means dropping output, dropping mids, and having more high-end... which you don't want. That leaves you with a very limited number of pickup choices and, again, I'll put forward the Alnico II Pro as being your best bet. It's a little more open than the PG and the top-end is smoothed out, but it's no more articulate and the mids are about the same.

Wow! I really thank you for following the thread that close. Sorry for not answering, I was rereading your reply to catch every detail. I´ve been playing guitar for nearly 9 years (I don´t consider it that much since I never formally had music/guitar classes and I don´t know that much theory), but I very recently became very interested in the pickups subject, so I still don't know a lot of things. I used to think that the more mids a pickup had the better it would sound, but now I know that isn´t necessarily truth. I also thought that articulation and hi-mid range was possible, but could´t have been any more wrong. I will certaintly check the A2P out, and also the other pickups you suggested. Another question: Would you recommend the A2P standard version or the Slash signature version?

 

[FerMetalhead1]

Pg's are rather low output actually.

Middy/bass will not give you great cleans. Polar opposites actually. Petrucci has the best neck lead tone. Get what he uses

I think in that case it would be better to get something right in the middle.

 

[Ace Flibble]

Would you recommend the A2P standard version or the Slash signature version?

They're so similar there isn't an easy answer. For me the big advantage of the Slash's extra output is it means you can lower the pickup further from the strings and get a more open, dynamic tone but with the same output the regular A2P has when it's very close to the strings. The big disadvantage of the Slash for me is that they're only made with single-conductor wire so you can't do any coil splitting, phase reversal or parallel wiring. Of course that's all personal and not everyone is going to care about those things. FWIW I had two sets of the Slash pickups and got rid of both, but not because of the sound. If the Slashes could be easily ordered in this country with 4-conductor wiring I would have kept using them, but since I do like having phase and parallel switches on my guitars, I swapped them for the regular A2Ps and Pearly Gates.
If you're not going to mess with any switching or unusual wiring then I'd say go for the Slash model, since the extra output will help it not get drowned out by your Super Distortion, or if you don't need the volume then you can always just lower it a bit like I said.

 

[Mincer]

Keep in mind that both the Slash and Alnico II Pro can do more than just Slash tones. They do the buttery lead thing very well, and even better (to me) if they are in a super strat.

 

[Ascension]

I forgot to mention that my guitar already has a push-pull pot. I'm not a big fan of splitting humbuckers, but I do consider putting them in parallel. Also, I would rather have a different pup that the SD for neck because I feel it very compressed and with very high output for being in that position. I mean for bridge is perfect for my musical style, but for the neck I was looking for something middy as well, but with more articulation, less compression and less high end.

Then you absolutely need to stay away from the Liquifier as it will be much more compressed and hotter than the PG neck. I like the Liquifier as a lower output big sounding BRIDGE pickup but hate them in the neck. I would look hard at a Sentient I'm running 3 of them right now in guitars. With a Alt 8 in my solid KOA Carvin DC 127 with a Hybrid in my Mahogany neck and body quilt top DC 400 and with a Perpetual Burn in my maple neck alder body quilt top DC 127.

 

[FerMetalhead1]

They're so similar there isn't an easy answer. For me the big advantage of the Slash's extra output is it means you can lower the pickup further from the strings and get a more open, dynamic tone but with the same output the regular A2P has when it's very close to the strings. The big disadvantage of the Slash for me is that they're only made with single-conductor wire so you can't do any coil splitting, phase reversal or parallel wiring. Of course that's all personal and not everyone is going to care about those things. FWIW I had two sets of the Slash pickups and got rid of both, but not because of the sound. If the Slashes could be easily ordered in this country with 4-conductor wiring I would have kept using them, but since I do like having phase and parallel switches on my guitars, I swapped them for the regular A2Ps and Pearly Gates.
If you're not going to mess with any switching or unusual wiring then I'd say go for the Slash model, since the extra output will help it not get drowned out by your Super Distortion, or if you don't need the volume then you can always just lower it a bit like I said.

Ups, it´s a shame to hear the Slashes have only single-conductor wire. However, I recetly learned a way to turn a single-conductor pickup into a 4 conductors one (or sort of). Honestly, I don´t dare to do it due to lack of experience. If a get one, I will ask for help to my trusted luthier.

Thank you so much, Ace!

 

[FerMetalhead1]

Keep in mind that both the Slash and Alnico II Pro can do more than just Slash tones. They do the buttery lead thing very well, and even better (to me) if they are in a super strat.

No worries, you can rest assure that the guitar is a one of a kind super strat :14:

 

[FerMetalhead1]

Then you absolutely need to stay away from the Liquifier as it will be much more compressed and hotter than the PG neck. I like the Liquifier as a lower output big sounding BRIDGE pickup but hate them in the neck. I would look hard at a Sentient I'm running 3 of them right now in guitars. With a Alt 8 in my solid KOA Carvin DC 127 with a Hybrid in my Mahogany neck and body quilt top DC 400 and with a Perpetual Burn in my maple neck alder body quilt top DC 127.

Well, I don´t really mind if the pickup is (slightly or heavily) hotter than the PG. What I am trying to say is that I´m looking for a big lead sound with the plus of having a decent clean sound for other genres. And of course, I'll check the Sentient out too. Actually, it was one of my former pickup options.

 

[FerMetalhead1]

They're so similar there isn't an easy answer. For me the big advantage of the Slash's extra output is it means you can lower the pickup further from the strings and get a more open, dynamic tone but with the same output the regular A2P has when it's very close to the strings. The big disadvantage of the Slash for me is that they're only made with single-conductor wire so you can't do any coil splitting, phase reversal or parallel wiring. Of course that's all personal and not everyone is going to care about those things. FWIW I had two sets of the Slash pickups and got rid of both, but not because of the sound. If the Slashes could be easily ordered in this country with 4-conductor wiring I would have kept using them, but since I do like having phase and parallel switches on my guitars, I swapped them for the regular A2Ps and Pearly Gates.
If you're not going to mess with any switching or unusual wiring then I'd say go for the Slash model, since the extra output will help it not get drowned out by your Super Distortion, or if you don't need the volume then you can always just lower it a bit like I said.

Ace! If you ever get those Slash pickups back, maybe I found something that can help you.

 

[playas]

Can't a 4 conductor Slash be ordered as a shop floor custom?
If you really wanted one it would be no harm to ask your local dealer for a price.

Here in Spain shop floor customs are prohibitively expensive, but may be much more reasonable in Mexico.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Modding a single conductor pup like the Slash to a 4 conductor is a pretty simple procedure. Nothing to get intimidated by if you know how to solder 2 wires together.

However, the A2P is a fine pup (as has been suggested/recommended) and not much different than the Slash.

I have a Liquifire in one of my guitars and really like it, but it doesn't sound like that is really the pup you are looking for. The A2P (or a Jazz with an A2 magnet or Jazz bridge with an A2) would be a good choice.

 

[Aceman]

I'm not a Liquifire guy - but I know enough to say you don't want that. Never played one personally.

You want a PAF style - but which one? An A2P might be your deal. Not sure DiMarzio has anything that will be as sweet and less bright than a PG in standard PAF ranges.

 

[Bill Dennis]

Can't a 4 conductor Slash be ordered as a shop floor custom?
If you really wanted one it would be no harm to ask your local dealer for a price.

Here in Spain shop floor customs are prohibitively expensive, but may be much more reasonable in Mexico.

Why are they more expensive? They were no extra cost last I did them in the US.