Single between two 'buckers.
- Thread starter Artie
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Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
WTF? Why should it? On a normal HSS guitar you also use a RWRP middle... why should it be a difference?
WTF? Why should it? On a normal HSS guitar you also use a RWRP middle... why should it be a difference?
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
yes, artie, i think your assertion is correct ... if you mix a singel coil with a humbucker, you will get hum no matter what the wind / polarity for the single coil are
if you are going to split the humbuckers when you combine with the single coil, it is conceivable that you could find a way to make both 2 & 4 hum cancelling .. it might require a mag flip or reverse wiring of one of the hums, it would depend ...
i got around this by using a duck in the middle ... all quiet all the time
good luck
t4d
yes, artie, i think your assertion is correct ... if you mix a singel coil with a humbucker, you will get hum no matter what the wind / polarity for the single coil are
if you are going to split the humbuckers when you combine with the single coil, it is conceivable that you could find a way to make both 2 & 4 hum cancelling .. it might require a mag flip or reverse wiring of one of the hums, it would depend ...
i got around this by using a duck in the middle ... all quiet all the time
good luck
t4d
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
well, to my ears, it is a very nice 'old' sound if you can get over the quiet ... it isnt quite as 'toppy', but it does exactly what i want it to do ... and it is not at all strong or gutsy (no 'punch' to speak of) ... really very useful for clean or slightly gritty - but no crunch ... i like to get a snappy "faux-chicken' pickin' " vibe from it ... gets me a cool knopfler-esque vibe when i solo with it (combined with the split 59n) ...
as you've probably seen me write before, i'd go with the vintage rails if i had to do it all over again because of the string bending issue ...
hope this helps
t4d
well, to my ears, it is a very nice 'old' sound if you can get over the quiet ... it isnt quite as 'toppy', but it does exactly what i want it to do ... and it is not at all strong or gutsy (no 'punch' to speak of) ... really very useful for clean or slightly gritty - but no crunch ... i like to get a snappy "faux-chicken' pickin' " vibe from it ... gets me a cool knopfler-esque vibe when i solo with it (combined with the split 59n) ...
as you've probably seen me write before, i'd go with the vintage rails if i had to do it all over again because of the string bending issue ...
hope this helps
t4d
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Re: Single between two 'buckers.
In my experience, mixing a HB with a SC results in a hum-reduced sound when they are combined -- not as much as a RWRP pair of SCs, but the hum is less than you'd get when combining 2 standard SCs or when using the SC alone. I think the issue of whether you need standard or RWRP to get hum-canceling when combined with a split HB would depend on which coil of the HB was active when split. I've read info on this issue somewhere on this site, so you might run a search for it.
In my experience, mixing a HB with a SC results in a hum-reduced sound when they are combined -- not as much as a RWRP pair of SCs, but the hum is less than you'd get when combining 2 standard SCs or when using the SC alone. I think the issue of whether you need standard or RWRP to get hum-canceling when combined with a split HB would depend on which coil of the HB was active when split. I've read info on this issue somewhere on this site, so you might run a search for it.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
Ok, to summarize, (if I have this right):
If I'm not going to split either humbucker, its not really an issue.
If I do a conventional split, (stud coil active by grounding the red/white wire), I should not use a RW/RP in the middle.
Am I close?
Artie
Ok, to summarize, (if I have this right):
If I'm not going to split either humbucker, its not really an issue.
If I do a conventional split, (stud coil active by grounding the red/white wire), I should not use a RW/RP in the middle.
Am I close?
Artie
Kommerzbassist
Thunderbirdologist
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
hmm... lets see... I would say that you'd have to reverse the mag of the neck bucker because it would be logical if they were made to be Hum cancelling when split in an HH config, so the neck will be RW/RP... So you'd either need to reverse the neck and buy a RW/RP mid or reverse the bridge and go with a normal mid pup. I think.
hmm... lets see... I would say that you'd have to reverse the mag of the neck bucker because it would be logical if they were made to be Hum cancelling when split in an HH config, so the neck will be RW/RP... So you'd either need to reverse the neck and buy a RW/RP mid or reverse the bridge and go with a normal mid pup. I think.
Zhangliqun
Questionologist
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
If you're like me, you would never use the middle pu in high gain/overdrive applications, so unless you're going to do a lot of recording with this guitar, hum-cancelling really isn't an issue, so it really doesn't matter if it's RWRP or not.
But even if it is an issue, you would probably get as much hum with the RWRP and one humbucker coil. This is because the middle pu is probably 6k and the humbucker coil will be only 4k if it's vintage wound, meaning they are not evenly matched, off by at least 50%, so you'll have a third or more of the hum of just one coil by itself. On the other hand, an 8k humbucker with a 6k single would be the dominant part of the signal, not only because it's 8k vs. 6k but because the humbucker senses a wider sample of the string and has a much stronger signal.
I say go with a stack.
If you're like me, you would never use the middle pu in high gain/overdrive applications, so unless you're going to do a lot of recording with this guitar, hum-cancelling really isn't an issue, so it really doesn't matter if it's RWRP or not.
But even if it is an issue, you would probably get as much hum with the RWRP and one humbucker coil. This is because the middle pu is probably 6k and the humbucker coil will be only 4k if it's vintage wound, meaning they are not evenly matched, off by at least 50%, so you'll have a third or more of the hum of just one coil by itself. On the other hand, an 8k humbucker with a 6k single would be the dominant part of the signal, not only because it's 8k vs. 6k but because the humbucker senses a wider sample of the string and has a much stronger signal.
I say go with a stack.
Artie
Peaveyologist
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
Thats sorta what I was thinking. This guitar is used purely in a home studio for recording. Almost exclusively clean/lo-gain.
Funny you should say that . . . I've got one on the way.
Although, the SSL-6 (tapped) really blends well with both the Lil59 in the neck and the Cool Rails in the bridge. Still, I want to see how the Stack sounds.
Zhangliqun said:
Thats sorta what I was thinking. This guitar is used purely in a home studio for recording. Almost exclusively clean/lo-gain.
Zhangliqun said:
Funny you should say that . . . I've got one on the way.
Although, the SSL-6 (tapped) really blends well with both the Lil59 in the neck and the Cool Rails in the bridge. Still, I want to see how the Stack sounds.
Re: Single between two 'buckers.
But yeah - a stack is a great choice, if you're not splitting the buckers.
I use a middle with a split bridge wired in series for a very cool heavy Ty Tabor tone. IME the resistance mismatch does affect hum cancelling, but not as much as you'd think, or as much as your math suggests.Zhangliqun said:
But yeah - a stack is a great choice, if you're not splitting the buckers.
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