small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

[Jonny C]

Is is feasible to use very small amps at gigs, that are miked up well? What are the disadvantages?

I was thinking that instead of buying a mid-sized combo, I'd get a very small one e.g. a champ (6/8" speaker) and spend the rest on a good mic and monitor to compensate. I really like the big sound that you can get out of a small speaker - like clapton's layla tone.

Anybody tried this?

 

[Curly]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

I'm an advocate of small amps, but in a gig situation, I like a small amp driving a larger amp.
The way we used to do it was just go into the Champ, then from the #2 input of the Champ to #1 input on the larger amp. For instance, Bonnie Raitt used to use a Pro Junior into a Vox AC30.

What do you lose by just micing a small amp?
headroom, bottom end, and overall frequency response.
there's no substitute for the great tone of a small amp saturated, but you need frequency response sometimes, too. It just opens up your sound.

JMHO

 

[Jonny C]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

Doesn't putting the sound into a larger amp lose the tone of the small speaker, though? Bearing in mind we play mostly uncomplicated blues, does the low frequency response and headroom matter that much?

 

[Curly]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

Doesn't putting the sound into a larger amp lose the tone of the small speaker, though?

Jonny,
you can use the volumes on the two amps to find a balance where the tone of the small amp isn't drowned out, and you're getting overdrive sooner out of the larger amp. (and you can always still do the mic thing).

really, a good way to answer the question would be to see if you could use someone's small amp just to try it.

are you thinking of selling the Deluxe, or just adding to what you have? what size gigs are we talking about?

I'm actually just a little surprised that a Deluxe would be too big for gigs.
but, I do understand the tone issue - I love the tone of a tweed Champ like mine!
(so does the Rev G!)

 

[Jonny C]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

No, the deluxe isn't too big for gigs. I turn that up all the way and it sounds fantastic - but I'd also like to explore the possibility of using a very small amp (I'm currently of the thinking that less is definitely more!). I'm not planning on selling, and I'd be using the small amp for similar size venues (if I plan to go ahead).

I guess you're right: the only real way to find out if it'll work is to try it. That'd be interesting - to plug a champ into a deluxe...

Davis was a champ player, eh? That might tempt me a little more

 

[Curly]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

I guess you're right: the only real way to find out if it'll work is to try it. That'd be interesting - to plug a champ into a deluxe...

Davis was a champ player, eh? That might tempt me a little more

well, the champ was your idea, but I agree - beautiful, class A tone and it has 2 inputs, which helps
A Pro Junior would be great, too, for not a lot more than some pedals ... I just don't know how you'd hook it up, since there's only one input, but if Bonnie Raitt did it, there must be a way - maybe there's a spare jack on the underside.
since you're in the UK, maybe you could find a small class A Vox or something.

any small amp would do to just see how it sounded ... I know that Lew says he uses a chorus pedal to hook two amps up in stereo

who's Davis??? ... I meant the Hon. Rev. G, Billy Gibbons, who is definitely a fan of Champs

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

I always feel like the tone of a tiny amp in a live situation is too directional.
You walk one way, and your sound disappears, although the cranked sound is cool.
I'd probably stay with a 22 -30W amp, or you'll risk being drowned out by a bassist.

 

[Wattage]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

Alittle while back I saw Aerosmith on some TV show playing live. Joe had a slew of amps stacked up he was running through but as he walked off stage you could see a small combo (maybe it was a 12" Goldtone) with a mic on it. I though SOB man he's pulling his mix sound from that and running the rig for the stage!

I don't know how well just a small amp would work, I tried for a while using a small rig with a Stonesy type of band I was in, practice seemed fine but for the gig it just didn't cut it. I think Curly has a better idea there.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

Is is feasible to use very small amps at gigs, that are miked up well? What are the disadvantages?

I was thinking that instead of buying a mid-sized combo, I'd get a very small one e.g. a champ (6/8" speaker) and spend the rest on a good mic and monitor to compensate. I really like the big sound that you can get out of a small speaker - like clapton's layla tone.

Anybody tried this?

I don't gig out as often as I used to, but I've done many gigs with a pair of 20 watt or 25 watt Fender amps: I have a small collection of tweed Fender Supers (2 x10) and Deluxes (1 x12) and blackface Deluxe Reverbs (1 x12). Most of my amps are in that output range. I don't think one is enough. Two are needed and I like to get them up off of the floor: I prefer to set each amp on a milkcrate or folding chair. Quality tubes and speakers (I like vintage Celestions and Jensens ) are a must, especially with smallish amps.

I'll usually use a stereo Boss Digital Delay that is barely turned on to split the signal to two vintage tweed amps or a Kendrick A/B/C box to split to signal to my Deluxe Reverbs.

I don't think I could gig with even two Fender Champs or Princetons tho...just to underpowered and not loud or clean enough for me.

A pair of 20 watt Fender 5E3 tweed Deluxes with Celestion Blue 12's do the trick beautifully tho!

Lew

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

I play in a large blues band with a horn section, Keyboard (lots of sound) I use a BF
princeton, And I never had a problem being drowned out. That Lil' sucker cuts thru!
A guy showed me a trick that I do some times. Get to the club early and steal a bar chair. Tilt the amp on the chair, And angle your vocal mic inline w/t the amp. When
you take a solo stepaside and fire away. The sound goes into your vocal mic, Your now in the P.A.!! Step back in front of the Mic your body blocks the sound. Pretty cool
little trick!!

 

[RACER X]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

I play a Fender 1/2 stack, plenty loud, but for small clubs a 60wtt 1x12 mic'd will get the job done.

 

[Norman_T]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

If you want a small amp (also to be used for giiging purpose) then try Blues Juniors and Pro Juniors or even a Cornford Halequin. If you want something to drive the other amps purely then the Vox Brian May Deacy special might be the thing to go for - although it's crap as an amp!!

 

[Jonny C]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

It's not actually the ability to turn up a small amp I'm loooking for (after all, I already have a 20W deluxe) - but the specific sound of a small speaker, probably no bigger than an 8" and preferably a 6".

As a few of these threads have begun to confuse me a little, could I just have something clarified? If I were to mic up a small amp, and use an extra personal monitor so I can hear myself play, would that work out OK?

 

[Pandemonium]

Re: small speaker, big sound, in gigs?

It's also important that everyone else in the band hears you. I want to hear everyone and I want everyone to hear me.