Speaker cab questions.

[Artie]

I just scored a bunch of free wood, 1" and 3/4" quality plywood, and am drawing up some amp/cabinet plans, and need some advice.

1. From a "tone" point of view, is there any difference between a vertical and horizontal 2x12 configuration? I know that horizontal is traditional, but vertical would suit my needs better.

2. Am I correct that a 2x12 configuration offers some tone enhancements over a 1x12? A 2x12 will probably be overkill for my present needs, but since I have all this free wood, I'd like to build a cab that sounds best, and meets all future needs. (Who knows - I might play "out" some day.)

3. My initial plan is to incorporate a 19-inch rack into the design. This would tend to make the cabinet "personalized" to my needs and would likely hurt future resale value. But then again, if I'm going to custom build a cabinet - I should custom build it for me, right? Is this a bad idea?

Thanks all.
Artie

Oh yeah, and other ideas you have, that I may have overlooked, please feel free to suggest.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

1) Vertical orientation of the speakers will not change tone in any way. Vertical may project sound a little differently, but the tonal characteristics of the box will not change with the orientation.

2) A 2x12 will most certainly have a fuller, more robust sound than a single 12. Given the same power, the additional cone will give you a theoretical +3db in the volume department. 2X12 would also double the cab's power handling, making speaker distortion less of a concern.

3) Build the cabinet to suit you first. A more personalized rig may or may not have good resale potential (just depends on who's doing the shopping), but because you scored free wood, how much are you really looking to lose on the thing if you decide to go a different rout later on down the road?

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Thanks for the speedy response Mike. Thats what I needed to know.

The 2x12 will work great partly because I'm going to be using a Crown D150 initially for the power. Its stereo, and will be driven by a stereo-out J-Station, so two 12's will work perfectly - one for each channel.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

couple thoughts on stereo...

1) Although not neccessary, it's generally wise to keep drivers receiving different signals in separate chambers. If you were to divide a 2x12 box you'd end up with a much tighter but not as deep bottom end. Without the divided chambers you could (likely would) have cancellation from within the cabinet.

2) I wonder how much of the stereo effect will be lost in the vertical orientation of the cab. That's something that I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to hear.

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Thats a good point about dividing the chambers. I hadn't thought of that.

I'm not too concerned about the stereo affect per se, (in this cabinet). The stereo output of the J is used for chorus, and things like that. I'll still maintain stereo going into the mixing board, but this is mainly so I can achieve the "sound" of a guitar amp. (At least, as close as is possible using SS.)

I imagine that there should be a significant difference, running through a pair of twelve's, as opposed to my current mixer>preamp>amp>studio monitor configuration.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

1. From a "tone" point of view, is there any difference between a vertical and horizontal 2x12 configuration? I know that horizontal is traditional, but vertical would suit my needs better.

Answer: IMO, the horizontal will have more bass and a wider, more pleasing tone. Possibly because the horizontal configuration takes advantage of coupling the bass frequencies from both speakers with the floor. The floor acts as one side of a huge horn.

2. Am I correct that a 2x12 configuration offers some tone enhancements over a 1x12? A 2x12 will probably be overkill for my present needs, but since I have all this free wood, I'd like to build a cab that sounds best, and meets all future needs. (Who knows - I might play "out" some day.)

Answer: Each speaker "vibrates" and resonates in sympathy with the other and the sound of two speakers in the same cab is more than two speakers in two separate cabs. You know what a passive radiator is I'm sure Artie. When two speakers are in the same cabinet they make each other vibrate in the same way. So the sound is stronger.

3. My initial plan is to incorporate a 19-inch rack into the design. This would tend to make the cabinet "personalized" to my needs and would likely hurt future resale value. But then again, if I'm going to custom build a cabinet - I should custom build it for me, right? Is this a bad idea?

It's your life Bro! Live it like you want. I wouldn't do that though. I'd keep my rack stuff in a separate cab.

Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

I think you'll lose all sense of stereo in a vertical configuration. You have an ear on each side of your head...that's what stereo is all about. I'd just build one big cab...about the size of a Twin Reverb or AC 30 if you want an open back cab and just put two input jacks (one for each speaker) on the back.

If you opt for a larger sealed cab, make it about 15" deep...the depth of a Marshall 4 x12 cab. I wouldn't put a divider inside so each speaker has its own compartment...I'd let them both share the same big space inside the cab. It'll sound fine...though the two speakers will cause each other to resonate at the lower frequencies.

I have a sealed cab like that: 26" w. X 21" h. x 15" d. It works fine with each speaker playing in stereo...though someone like Paul Kliptch might disagree.

But hey, it's a rock n roll cabinet for guitar...not a studio monitor.

Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Heh . . . somewhat opposed views from two people who's opinions I respect. But, its all good. This is just what I needed. Information, so that I can make an informed decision.

Part of my problem is, 95% of my playing will be in a fairly small music room. Floor space is at a premium, and a rarely play very loud. However, I still want that open, guitar-amp sound. (As best as can be achieved.) Its vital that I keep the stereo configuration, but now I'm wondering if I might be better off to consider going 4x8, or maybe 4x6 instead. But I'm concerned that I might then lose that "classic" 12" tone.

Appreciate the responses so far. And Lew made a good point about keeping the rack separate. I have enough wood to build two separate cab configurations, and try them both.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Lew makes a great point that this is a rock n roll cab for guitar, not a studio monitor. My comment on separate chambers is a tone issue, really. The divider would change the tone of the cabinet, and is another way to color your sound, so it may or may not be desireable. From a simple sound reproduction stand point though, the divided chambers will give you a more accurate stereo sound. I hope that clears it up a little. In a guitar cabinet, neither one is "right" or "wrong."

I think we agree that the stereo sense of the cab would be lost in the vertical orientation.

Artie: IMO, stick with 12" drivers. I think that 4x8 or 4x6 will be lacking in some bottom end girth.

 

[skyydogg01]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

i would say to split the rack and the cab which makes for easier portability and just stack 'em when you play. What about a 4 x 10 cab artie?

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Mike; that helps me to decide, considerably. This will be in the same sound room with my mixing board/amp/Yamaha studio monitors. So, I have that setup for my squeeky clean stereo sound. I'm specifically trying to capture that "sound-of-a-guitar-amp" that I currently lack.

So . . . I believe I'll go with a 2x12, common chamber, separate rack cab.

I still have to think a bit on the vertical vs horizontal. Unfortunately, floor space is at a premium.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Unless you've got something special planned for the cab, why can't you build a simple box plug it in, play, rotate, play, and see if you can tell a difference?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Lew makes a great point that this is a rock n roll cab for guitar, not a studio monitor. My comment on separate chambers is a tone issue, really. The divider would change the tone of the cabinet, and is another way to color your sound, so it may or may not be desireable. From a simple sound reproduction stand point though, the divided chambers will give you a more accurate stereo sound. I hope that clears it up a little. In a guitar cabinet, neither one is "right" or "wrong."

I think we agree that the stereo sense of the cab would be lost in the vertical orientation.

Artie: IMO, stick with 12" drivers. I think that 4x8 or 4x6 will be lacking in some bottom end girth.

I'd go with a Celestion G12H30 and Vintage 30 if it was my cab...though for stereo maybe a pair of g12H30's would be best.

I mentioned that I have a 26 x 21 x 15 deep cab with a pair of Celestion's in it. Each speaker has it's own input jack. I used it to test speakers.

But as you mentioned, the two speakers interact. When playing through just one, the unused speaker vibrates as a passive radiator and adds alot of bass to the sound of the other one, even when the unused speaker is not even plugged in!

Still, adding a divider would halve the size of the cab as far as each speaker is concerned and make each speaker sound tight and as if it's in to small of a cab. So i wouldn't do that.

Artie: I'd build a cab about the size of the cab I have and just stand the cab on end if you need to save space. That way you'll still be able to use it horizontal for a stereo spread if you need to.

I've built 15 x 15 x 30 cabs in the past for vertical use. I liked them better used horizontal. The 26 w x 21 h x 15 d size looks better and sounds better, IMO.

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

What about a 4 x 10 cab artie?

Yeah, I thought about that too. There's just something about twin twelve's.

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Unless you've got something special planned for the cab, why can't you build a simple box plug it in, play, rotate, play, and see if you can tell a difference?

Yup . . . good point.

Artie: I'd build a cab about the size of the cab I have and just stand the cab on end if you need to save space. That way you'll still be able to use it horizontal for a stereo spread if you need to.

So . . . 2x12 horizontal it is. With the ability to stand it on end for storage and evaluation purposes.

Thanks guys, for all the input, and so fast.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

Unless you've got something special planned for the cab, why can't you build a simple box plug it in, play, rotate, play, and see if you can tell a difference?

There ya go!

I have a cab the size of a Marshall 4 x 12 bottem like that. It's all made of Baltic Birch ply and the corners are dovetailed. We made all my cabs in my furniture shop. I design custom furniture for a living.

Anyways, I can put four differant speakers in that cab and then rotate the cab and stand it on any end to put whichever speakers on top.

The speakers in the bottem position always sound bassier and the speakers on top always sound brighter and louder.

Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

What I had originaly envisioned was . . . imagine a 4x12 slant-top cabinet. Now cut it in half vertically, so that you have a 2x12 vertical slant-top. Now, extend the sides upwardly to form the 4-6 rack space, integral rack mount. Slightly mimicking the overall shape of your basic arcade video game console. (But smaller, of course.)

That might have been a nice compact, space-saving design, that looked cool. But I don't want to sacrifice "tone", and resaleability might be a practical consideration.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

ADA made some cabs like that. I didn't really like that look. I think they may have measured something like 15" x 15" x 27" or 30"? Did give me the inspiration to build a 15 x 15 x 30 for myself though. One problem is they are not wide enough to sit a head on top of! Lew

 

[Artie]

Re: Speaker cab questions.

One problem is they are not wide enough to sit a head on top of! Lew

Actually, that may be an important consideration. I'm going to use this now with equipment that I have on hand. (SS Crown amp.) But I have plans to purchase one of Bruce's amps in the coming months.

Which, would make it a real nice 2x12 amp.