DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
12? 14? 16? 18?
Looking at a 30 foot length at least.
Any suggestions?
Looking at a 30 foot length at least.
Any suggestions?
Speaker cable - what gauge?
- Thread starter DrNewcenstein
- Start date
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Because I so infrequently need to buy speaker cable, I like to get something I know is overkill. You want the resistance of the wire run to be insignificant compared to the impedance of the speaker load and the output impedance of the amplifier.
12 AWG wire is about 0.0477 ohms for a 30-foot run. Since there's a positive and a negative leg that the current must run through, double that for 0.0954 ohms.
12 AWG gives 0.0954 ohms.
14 AWG gives 0.152 ohms.
16 AWG gives 0.241 ohms.
18 AWG gives 0.383 ohms.
I'm too lazy to do this now, but we could plug these values as resistances (and also the cable capacitances and inductances) into a model that also uses the complex impedance of the speaker load and output impedance of the amp, to see what happens across frequency.
Because I so infrequently need to buy speaker cable, I like to get something I know is overkill. You want the resistance of the wire run to be insignificant compared to the impedance of the speaker load and the output impedance of the amplifier.
12 AWG wire is about 0.0477 ohms for a 30-foot run. Since there's a positive and a negative leg that the current must run through, double that for 0.0954 ohms.
12 AWG gives 0.0954 ohms.
14 AWG gives 0.152 ohms.
16 AWG gives 0.241 ohms.
18 AWG gives 0.383 ohms.
I'm too lazy to do this now, but we could plug these values as resistances (and also the cable capacitances and inductances) into a model that also uses the complex impedance of the speaker load and output impedance of the amp, to see what happens across frequency.
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Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Build your own or premade? I use 12 awg even for short runs mainly because I use speakons at the cabinet and they hold the 12 awg round jacket cable really well.
You can get in-wall cable, cheap, but the jacket is stiff and thin. I wouldn't use it on stage. It's made for permanent installation. 12/2 round jacket power cord works well and usually has a flexible jacket.
I bought some of this last time out. It was less expensive than the power cable that I could find at the time without going to a big roll. Pretty decent stuff and priced well. The extra large Neutrik and Ampehnol 1/4" TS plugs fit.
http://www.parts-express.com/talent-sc1250-12-awg-2-conductor-speaker-cable-50-ft--101-315
http://www.parts-express.com/talent-sc12100-12-awg-2-conductor-speaker-cable-100-ft--101-316
Build your own or premade? I use 12 awg even for short runs mainly because I use speakons at the cabinet and they hold the 12 awg round jacket cable really well.
You can get in-wall cable, cheap, but the jacket is stiff and thin. I wouldn't use it on stage. It's made for permanent installation. 12/2 round jacket power cord works well and usually has a flexible jacket.
I bought some of this last time out. It was less expensive than the power cable that I could find at the time without going to a big roll. Pretty decent stuff and priced well. The extra large Neutrik and Ampehnol 1/4" TS plugs fit.
http://www.parts-express.com/talent-sc1250-12-awg-2-conductor-speaker-cable-50-ft--101-315
http://www.parts-express.com/talent-sc12100-12-awg-2-conductor-speaker-cable-100-ft--101-316
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
^^^ I should do that. I made my existing cables with 13 AWG in-wall speaker cable, which is stiff and poorly behaved on the painted side of the drywall. I used it because I had it sitting around, but for the money that All Parts stuff seems like a good deal. I also have a ton of the Radio Shack big-barrel 1/4" TS ends that I picked up.
^^^ I should do that. I made my existing cables with 13 AWG in-wall speaker cable, which is stiff and poorly behaved on the painted side of the drywall. I used it because I had it sitting around, but for the money that All Parts stuff seems like a good deal. I also have a ton of the Radio Shack big-barrel 1/4" TS ends that I picked up.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Looking at ready-mades.
Head and cab in separate rooms, 4 Ohm 2x12 and 8-16 Ohm 4x12. 100w JCM800 and TripleRec. I'm not sure of the gauge of the cable I'm using now. Nothing's caught on fire in the 18 years I've used it. Not planning to do thru-wall mounts (would require shorter cable and probably be better for tone, though).
I'm not displeased with the tone I'm getting now, but then again I don't have a different/shorter/thicker/thinner cable to test that, and have always heard to avoid using guitar cables as speaker cables, just to stick with "lamp cords".
I could probably handle the DIY stuff, but the cost isn't a concern for me at the moment. Not building a high-end studio or planning a tour, so I don't need the "crème de la crème", but I'm not looking for almost-copper or "hey look, your speaker cable's on fire".
Looking at ready-mades.
Head and cab in separate rooms, 4 Ohm 2x12 and 8-16 Ohm 4x12. 100w JCM800 and TripleRec. I'm not sure of the gauge of the cable I'm using now. Nothing's caught on fire in the 18 years I've used it. Not planning to do thru-wall mounts (would require shorter cable and probably be better for tone, though).
I'm not displeased with the tone I'm getting now, but then again I don't have a different/shorter/thicker/thinner cable to test that, and have always heard to avoid using guitar cables as speaker cables, just to stick with "lamp cords".
I could probably handle the DIY stuff, but the cost isn't a concern for me at the moment. Not building a high-end studio or planning a tour, so I don't need the "crème de la crème", but I'm not looking for almost-copper or "hey look, your speaker cable's on fire".
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Lots of pre-mades with 1/4" TS connectors on both ends. Not too expensive either. Check Seismic Audio ... although I think they sell in bulk.
Heres a 50 foot. Same company that makes the wire I posted. It's copper, not copper clad. http://www.parts-express.com/talent-scq50-speaker-cable-1-4-male-to-1-4-male-50-ft-12-2--240-981
A cheaper one, 30 ft. Pyle Pro. I have no idea whether it's all copper wire. http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-ppjj30-12-awg-1-4-to-1-4-speaker-cable-30-ft--248-4594
Heres the speaker cable link at parts express. They are pretty handy with carrying a bunch of different things and the prices are competitive or better. http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-cables/2161
Lots of pre-mades with 1/4" TS connectors on both ends. Not too expensive either. Check Seismic Audio ... although I think they sell in bulk.
Heres a 50 foot. Same company that makes the wire I posted. It's copper, not copper clad. http://www.parts-express.com/talent-scq50-speaker-cable-1-4-male-to-1-4-male-50-ft-12-2--240-981
A cheaper one, 30 ft. Pyle Pro. I have no idea whether it's all copper wire. http://www.parts-express.com/pyle-ppjj30-12-awg-1-4-to-1-4-speaker-cable-30-ft--248-4594
Heres the speaker cable link at parts express. They are pretty handy with carrying a bunch of different things and the prices are competitive or better. http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-cables/2161
TheMadGypsyBaron
New member
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
I use 16 gauge with my speaker cables. All are relatively short, less than 10 feet for most.
I agree with SlyFoxx, I'd go with the thicker one for longer distances
I use 16 gauge with my speaker cables. All are relatively short, less than 10 feet for most.
I agree with SlyFoxx, I'd go with the thicker one for longer distances
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Cool, thanks all :beerchug:
Cool, thanks all :beerchug:
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
For my PA gear, I will only use 12 gauge for runs longer than 20 feet. I've got a couple of 14 gauge cords that I use for monitors when we're in small clubs.
With the Mesa amps and cabs, I keep my runs as short as I can; most are less than three feet.
I've got some heavy zip cord from Monster around, the kind you'd use for home stereo. Been thinking about re-wiring my cabs and combos with the stuff, but it seems like minimal return for the effort.
Btw, remember that in a pinch you can make a speaker cable from an AC extension cable, lamp zip cord, or even something like a vacuum cleaner replacement cable. Did this on tour one time...somehow lost a speaker cable and the only store open late in this small town was a little vacuum cleaner store. Raced back and got it soldered up in time. Whew! Lesson learned: carry spares for EVERYTHING!
Bill
For my PA gear, I will only use 12 gauge for runs longer than 20 feet. I've got a couple of 14 gauge cords that I use for monitors when we're in small clubs.
With the Mesa amps and cabs, I keep my runs as short as I can; most are less than three feet.
I've got some heavy zip cord from Monster around, the kind you'd use for home stereo. Been thinking about re-wiring my cabs and combos with the stuff, but it seems like minimal return for the effort.
Btw, remember that in a pinch you can make a speaker cable from an AC extension cable, lamp zip cord, or even something like a vacuum cleaner replacement cable. Did this on tour one time...somehow lost a speaker cable and the only store open late in this small town was a little vacuum cleaner store. Raced back and got it soldered up in time. Whew! Lesson learned: carry spares for EVERYTHING!
Bill
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
I'm not worried so much about clarity and purity of tone at this point. Like I said, not on tour, and not building the dream studio. I'm sure that what I'm getting now sucks in comparison to what I could be getting, but ignorance is truly bliss. Or at least a reasonable facsimile.
I read an interview with Anthrax years ago where they were using pedal patch cords from their guitars to their amps while recording to get the best tone they could. Couldn't move while playing without ripping out the cords.
I'm not that worried about it :lol:
I'm not worried so much about clarity and purity of tone at this point. Like I said, not on tour, and not building the dream studio. I'm sure that what I'm getting now sucks in comparison to what I could be getting, but ignorance is truly bliss. Or at least a reasonable facsimile.
I read an interview with Anthrax years ago where they were using pedal patch cords from their guitars to their amps while recording to get the best tone they could. Couldn't move while playing without ripping out the cords.
I'm not that worried about it :lol:
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Good Heavens.....30 feet.?
http://web.fscj.edu/Mark.Bowman/handouts/American Wire Gauge Conductor Size Table.pdf
The AWG in your house is only 14.
12 AWG is just 1.5 Ohms .....in 1k FEET.
I think you will have a hard time finding 1/4" connectors that will take 12 AWG.
I cannot imagine 16 being a problem for 30 feet.
good luck
Good Heavens.....30 feet.?
http://web.fscj.edu/Mark.Bowman/handouts/American Wire Gauge Conductor Size Table.pdf
The AWG in your house is only 14.
12 AWG is just 1.5 Ohms .....in 1k FEET.
I think you will have a hard time finding 1/4" connectors that will take 12 AWG.
I cannot imagine 16 being a problem for 30 feet.
good luck
Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
I use some really cool-looking (lol!) purple & silver twisted/round-jacket 12 AWG OFC cable I got off ebay and solder/terminate it with jumbo switchcraft jacks. My longest cable is just 6' though..
Just picked up some of Van Damme's 'Blue series' 2x4.00mm (about 11-or-so AWG) 'Ultra pure OFC" speaker cable to try out...seemed reasonably priced & worth a try ...don't know how I'm going to fit it into my jacks though ..it's massive :laugh2:
If I'm playing a gig & need a longer length I just use whatever the sound guy's got....
I use some really cool-looking (lol!) purple & silver twisted/round-jacket 12 AWG OFC cable I got off ebay and solder/terminate it with jumbo switchcraft jacks. My longest cable is just 6' though..
Just picked up some of Van Damme's 'Blue series' 2x4.00mm (about 11-or-so AWG) 'Ultra pure OFC" speaker cable to try out...seemed reasonably priced & worth a try ...don't know how I'm going to fit it into my jacks though ..it's massive :laugh2:
If I'm playing a gig & need a longer length I just use whatever the sound guy's got....
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
Yeah, the cab's in another room, and the head is currently on the other side of the same wall, but I need to move it across the room to be closer to my other gear (rack stuff). What with going around corners and behind crap, and I prefer to have some slack I can pin up to take the downward pull off the jack.
And actually I found some 12ga ready-mades with 1/4" plugs at MF.
Yeah, the cab's in another room, and the head is currently on the other side of the same wall, but I need to move it across the room to be closer to my other gear (rack stuff). What with going around corners and behind crap, and I prefer to have some slack I can pin up to take the downward pull off the jack.
And actually I found some 12ga ready-mades with 1/4" plugs at MF.
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
The Jumbo Neutriks, Amphenols and Switchcraft (184) will all accept the round jacketed 12 AWG. I wont argue that 16 AWG isn't adequate for 30 feet with a 100 watt head. It probably is.
Personally speaking, my amp to cabinet runs, currently, are pretty short, under 10 feet, and I definitely don't need 12 AWG. I use it anyway. Price isn't bad and I use Speakons. Minimum wire size for Speakons is, I believe 16 AWG, but they don't clamp tightly enough on the wire nor hold the jacket firmly with 16 AWG. I wouldn't use smaller than 14 AWG with Speakons. Of course, this is just my personal preference.
The Jumbo Neutriks, Amphenols and Switchcraft (184) will all accept the round jacketed 12 AWG. I wont argue that 16 AWG isn't adequate for 30 feet with a 100 watt head. It probably is.
Personally speaking, my amp to cabinet runs, currently, are pretty short, under 10 feet, and I definitely don't need 12 AWG. I use it anyway. Price isn't bad and I use Speakons. Minimum wire size for Speakons is, I believe 16 AWG, but they don't clamp tightly enough on the wire nor hold the jacket firmly with 16 AWG. I wouldn't use smaller than 14 AWG with Speakons. Of course, this is just my personal preference.
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
I'm not much of a believer in "boutique" wire/cable. Especially for guitar/bass speaker cable/wire and more especially (more especially???) with OD/distortion. As long as the cable is copper and they connectorized it competently, I think you will be perfectly fine with what you bought.
I'm not much of a believer in "boutique" wire/cable. Especially for guitar/bass speaker cable/wire and more especially (more especially???) with OD/distortion. As long as the cable is copper and they connectorized it competently, I think you will be perfectly fine with what you bought.
DrNewcenstein
He Did the Monster Mash
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
That's what I was thinking, but I seem to recall reading something once about how you have to balance the cable's impedance with the cabinet and head demands based on the length of the run; too thin and it heats like a filament, or it can't handle the power coming out of the amp and can only feed it back up the pipe, burning out the head.
That's what I was thinking, but I seem to recall reading something once about how you have to balance the cable's impedance with the cabinet and head demands based on the length of the run; too thin and it heats like a filament, or it can't handle the power coming out of the amp and can only feed it back up the pipe, burning out the head.
SlyFoxx
Glossless
Re: Speaker cable - what gauge?
What???
Ok here's the deal as I see it. A good recording breaks down something like this.
50%=a great idea or song. You don't start with this you're doomed.
35%=a great performance.
14%=recording space and gear
1%= quibbling too much over things like speaker wire.
Now I like my 1% ...but I'll never obsess over it.
What???
Ok here's the deal as I see it. A good recording breaks down something like this.
50%=a great idea or song. You don't start with this you're doomed.
35%=a great performance.
14%=recording space and gear
1%= quibbling too much over things like speaker wire.
Now I like my 1% ...but I'll never obsess over it.
