Speaker conundrum

[Jacew]

I'm having a hard time searching for a good speaker for my setup.

I've played quite a while with pair of 1x8 cabs with eminence speakers. It honestly sounds great. Only the bass response was (not surprisingly) a bit lacking.

I bought 1x12 in summer with eminence legend v128. Tone I got from that cab alone was very bad. Tight bass response, and nice sparkly highs, but the overall tone was about most flat and dull I've heard. There was no mids to speak of. I got usable tone when I made my eminence delta 1x8 half open and added in series with that cab. Dirty solution but it worked.

I tried to improve that cab by swithing to g12m greenback 25w. It's really nothing I imagined it to be:
Very fuzzy mids and highs, combined with loose and undefined bass... Not good.

So I ended up adding those two 1x8 cabs parallel to make it usable. Now I think that those 1x8 might sound better on their own.

Not sure if I should just gut the 1x12 and put those 8" speakers in it. That bigger cab might add that needed bass response.

Or should I try yet to find actually good sounding 12" for it.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Speaker conundrum

Will you be able to fit a 2x8" into a 1x12"? Be absolutely sure that it is doable before proceeding. Even then, I suspect that you would have to make some serious adjustments to it to make it work.

I do have some experience with the Greenbacks (I have been using them for a decade), and I would like to say two things in their favour: (1) they sound a lot less constricted once they are properly worn in, and (2) their strong sides work to their advantage in a full mix. There is nothing wrong with not liking them, of course.

You have not told what kind of music you play, or what your rig is. Could it be that there are things elsewhere in the sound chain that contributes to a sub-par sound?

Failing that, I think it would help if you could re-phrase your earlier comments into a description of what you'd like a speaker to do that the Greenback didn't do for you. Those are one of the industry standards, and I am sure people here could chime in. If you, somehow, could manage to try your rig with a Vintage 30 that would be even better.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

They fit just nicely. It's slightly oversized diy cab, I have no worries about tinkering with it. Just needs new baffle for make it to work.

Based on the seller, it should be broken in. It doesn't really sound "constricted" but loose, bright and harsh. Like it was in open cab (it's not).

I'd really like to focus on speakers to fit my current rig instead of other way around. I think that's the weakest link in it currently. Head I use is Orange Tiny Terror.

I have idea of the tone I'm after in my head, but I can't really pinpoint it to specific style.

I think the combination of that eminence legend v12 and greenback might be just perfect, but other is 8 ohms and 16 so I cannot try them out. And I guess sensitivity is too much off for them to blend nicely (102 vs 96 db).

In a nutshell, I'm after wide frequency response, with mid to low mid heaviness and possibly slightly less upper mids for that sort "wooden grunt". But preferably not too restrained high end, so I can get chime and wail too.

 

[esandes]

Re: Speaker conundrum

I'm having a hard time searching for a good speaker for my setup.

I've played quite a while with pair of 1x8 cabs with eminence speakers. It honestly sounds great. Only the bass response was (not surprisingly) a bit lacking.

I bought 1x12 in summer with eminence legend v128. Tone I got from that cab alone was very bad. Tight bass response, and nice sparkly highs, but the overall tone was about most flat and dull I've heard. There was no mids to speak of. I got usable tone when I made my eminence delta 1x8 half open and added in series with that cab. Dirty solution but it worked.

I tried to improve that cab by swithing to g12m greenback 25w. It's really nothing I imagined it to be:
Very fuzzy mids and highs, combined with loose and undefined bass... Not good.

So I ended up adding those two 1x8 cabs parallel to make it usable. Now I think that those 1x8 might sound better on their own.

Not sure if I should just gut the 1x12 and put those 8" speakers in it. That bigger cab might add that needed bass response.

Or should I try yet to find actually good sounding 12" for it.

You're all over the place man. I'd never consider anything smaller than a 2x12 cab. I'd also never consider anything other than Celestions and closed back cabs.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

You're all over the place man. I'd never consider anything smaller than a 2x12 cab. I'd also never consider anything other than Celestions and closed back cabs.

Well, I'm not that conservative. I like to try different things.

And honestly I've had better luck thus far with eminences than celestion speakers...

It bites there's no shops around where I could try out cabs.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker conundrum

Not sure exactly what you're looking for but sounds like you may find it with mix of 2 speakers. Maybe in a 2X12. But with your affinity for those 8" speakers, maybe not.
Nothing wrong with Eminence speakers. Some of their line are meant to be based on some of the more "legendary" speakers by other companies, mainly celestion I guess. And some are their own thing. I use a Celestion G12H30 with an Eminence Red Fang Alnico in a partially open back 2x12. I use WGS Invaders in a 4x12 with a Marshall (clone build). They have some of that Greenback midrange going but they are more extended and balanced and don't break up quite as early. I love those speakers. Point being, it's a search and we all have our own preferences.

Unfortunately, you may just have to go through a period of Speaker Acquisition Syndrome ... buy, try and sell. Don't know how the used market is in Finland with ebay or other online sites but that may be your best bet.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Speaker conundrum

You might have to get shell out for a plane ticket to Burgebrach in the end.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

I've been actually looking at g12h's. They seem exactly what I'm looking for. Does they have significantly less "honkiness" and/or more tightness than Greenbacks?

The Governor is other I've been looking at. Any experience about those?

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

You might have to get shell out for a plane ticket to Burgebrach in the end.

Where's that?

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker conundrum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLtHLLPsnw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxBLojlsVE

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Speaker conundrum

The Governor is other I've been looking at. Any experience about those?

They sound ok in the room, but don't mic up all that well, IME. Weird mids and fizzy top. Honestly, I much prefer even Chinese V30's, both in the room and mic'd up, personally.

 

[Sirion]

Re: Speaker conundrum

Where's that?

That is the town Thomann is physically located in.

 

[esandes]

Re: Speaker conundrum

Well, I'm not that conservative. I like to try different things.

And honestly I've had better luck thus far with eminences than celestion speakers...

It bites there's no shops around where I could try out cabs.

I know what you mean. The only other way to find the right cab is to YouTube different cabs and speaker combinations. I know celestion have sound clips for most of their speakers on their site.

What kind of music do you play? If you want big and tight bass you want a sealed back cab as big as possible. In General, higher wattage and bigger magnet speakers will further help to bring chest thumping bass.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

I know what you mean. The only other way to find the right cab is to YouTube different cabs and speaker combinations. I know celestion have sound clips for most of their speakers on their site.

What kind of music do you play? If you want big and tight bass you want a sealed back cab as big as possible. In General, higher wattage and bigger magnet speakers will further help to bring chest thumping bass.

I dont want a lot of bass, but I'd like it tighter and more controlled than Greenback.

Dialing eq into very bass heavy seemed to help for that. It has now quite ok tone, though I'd still like to have less fuzzyness in mids and highs.

They sound ok in the room, but don't mic up all that well, IME. Weird mids and fizzy top. Honestly, I much prefer even Chinese V30's, both in the room and mic'd up, personally.

Clearly the wrong speaker for me then. Thanks.

What about Private Jack?

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLtHLLPsnw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWxBLojlsVE

Well, that was little use: Greenback was the best in first one and V30 worst...

In the second one I didn't like the mid/high response of any of the examples. Of course it could be the amp and how it's dialed, but still...

If I don't want that ripping/searing type of tone that you hear in these examples, what would you suggest?

Here's the best example I could find of the type of solid and bright, yet smooth tone what I'm after:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz1y1_RG_90

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker conundrum

Well, that was little use: Greenback was the best in first one and V30 worst...

In the second one I didn't like the mid/high response of any of the examples. Of course it could be the amp and how it's dialed, but still...

If I don't want that ripping/searing type of tone that you hear in these examples, what would you suggest?

Here's the best example I could find of the type of solid and bright, yet smooth tone what I'm after:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz1y1_RG_90

It's definitely not a safe bet to go by what you hear in most of the videos. They don't attempt to replicate your amp, cabinet, room or any of that. But I posted them because they directly compared the G12H and the G12M. So for a general reference to compare differences between those two speakers they may be helpful.

This one from Rivera may help more. Still not your amp or room or cab etc. but more controlled and professional. Lots of speakers compared.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

^That's great, thank you!

There's that distinctive peak on Greenback upper mids, you can hear in that video. That becomes icepick with solo boost in my setup. G12T might have more treble, but it's higher so I think that might work. G12M 70 also sounds pretty good there, especially for lead.

I'm pretty suspicious about alnicos, but that Jensen sounds quite nice.

I actually did looked at Jensen 12/50 FA Falcon before I even bought that cab (ceramic). Does anyone has any thoughts about those?

 

[Jacew]

Re: Speaker conundrum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p66LvK-y2gI

Listened this through last night, G12T sounded best, until the blind test in the end of the video. The worst sounding clip then turned out to be that...


I've been reading about G12M-70 recently, some say they sound harsh, others that they're thin or muddy... But supposedly they should be less harsh, crunchy and smoother on highs than greenback or V30?

What the heck they actually sound like? Youtube was no help figuring that out...

Here's older thread about it I read:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?113589-Any-info-on-Celestion-G12M-70-s

 

[Demanic]

Re: Speaker conundrum

I have an old Carvin 4x12 with 12M-70's in it. I did a sound demo recording with it back last spring. Maybe it will help.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Speaker conundrum

You're all over the place man. I'd never consider anything smaller than a 2x12 cab. I'd also never consider anything other than Celestions and closed back cabs.

Although Celestions are great, don’t count out Eminence. They have a fantastic lineup. I’m using a set of Splawn Small Blocks (with my Quickrod), which are made by Eminence and they are hands down the best speakers I’ve ever used. They are similar to a Greenback at 55W.