Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

[Lewguitar]

Fender 5E3 tweed Deluxe: Celestion G12 Alnico Blue

Fender 5F4 tweed Super: 1 Weber P10RT/10A100T & 1 Weber C10Q/10F125...but if you're going to play really loud you might want to go with the P10Q/10A125 because it can handle the abuse. But I like the tone of the P10RT better...especially in the wide panel/lower output versions of the tweed Super that I own.

Fender 5F6-A tweed Bassman: Weber P10RT/10A100T or Weber P10Q/10A125

Fender Deluxe Reverb: Celestion G12H30 (or Vintage 30)

Fender Vibrolux-Reverb: Weber P10Q 30 watt/10A125 or C10Q/10F125

Fender Super-Reverb: Weber P10Q/10A125...I like the 30 watt version better than the 20 watt version: smoother highs. I also love the Weber C10Q/10F125 but the Super Reverb is a heavy amp already and the Weber C10Q will make it REALLY HEAVY. The Weber C10Q does sound killer in a Super Reverb though.

Vox AC-30: Celestion G12 Alnico Blues

Most other 2 x 12 combo amps: 1 Celestion G12H30 & 1 Vintage 30

If you're replacing the Jensen Reissue P10R's and want an alnico 10 with plucky mids, early break-up and smooth treble, go for the Weber P10R/10A100 with the smooth cone...it's alot like the Jensen P10R used in the early 50's. But if you want one with more highs and more like the late 50's version used in the original 59 Bassman go for the ribbed cone Weber P10RT/10A100T...that's the one I use.

If you're replacing speakers in a tweed Fender Super, I like mixing the Weber P10RT/10A100T with the Weber C10Q/10F125. The P10RT gets the tweed tone and early break-up and the C10Q/10F125 makes the bass response more solid and clean and adds some nice solid mids too. I like the two speakers combined.

Generally, I think ceramic magnet speakers have tighter/clearer bass and alnico magnet speakers break up a little more easily and have a pluckier tone. I like to mix ceramic 10's with alnico 10's in some amps to get the best qualities of both.

If your amp has two 10" alnico speakers and you're finding the bass response to be a little muddy or loose try replacing just one of those alnico 10's with a ceramic magnet Weber C10Q/10F125. It'll make a nice improvement.

Celestion makes my very favorite 12" speakers and those are the ceramic magnet G12H30 and Vintage 30 and the alnico magnet G12.

The Celestion G12H30 has smoother highs and more bass than the brighter sounding Vintage 30. Replacing a generic 12" speaker with either will usually make a HUGE improvement in the volume, clarity and overall tone of just about any amp...especially an amp like a Fender Deluxe Reverb.

Ted Weber makes my favorite 10" speakers. I think Ted's C10Q/10F125 is closer in tone to my favorite old Jensen 10, the '66 Jensen C10N, than what Ted regards as his version of the C10N: the Weber 10F150.

Ted's version of the '66 Jensen C10N, the Weber 10F150 does have great bass response, but the highs are not as crisp as those in my original Jensen '66 C10N. I think Ted's C10Q/10F125 actually sounds closer to the tone of my old '66 C10N's.

I've never liked the orginal 60's Jensen C10Q's...the magnet is to small. Ted's version, the C10Q/10F125 has the same huge magnet he uses on his version of the C10N and sounds much better than the orginals or the Jensen Reissue of the C10Q.

Regarding the Jensen Reissue speakers, I like the P10R. I think it's a great value and four of them sound killer in a Bassman Reissue or similar amp. But the Weber P10RT/10A100T is even better.

I find the reissue C10Q from Jensen to be a little to bright for my tastes but it's an excellant value and it'll smooth out after it's played in. However, I much prefer Ted's C10Q/10F125 and find it to be a stronger, richer, deeper, better sounding speaker.

I don't have alot of experience with 15's...

Lew

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Ah... the beginnings of another great vault worthy thread, thanks Lew! I just wish that you could post some soundbites of each set up for comparison.

 

[Curly]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

good info, Lew

I'm glad I finally took your advice and put a G12H30 in my DRRI! (well, Avatar's Hellatone 30) good speaker

I run a "Mill City Blues" low powered alnico in my '56 Deluxe - it's Eminence made, but sounds great, but they're no longer made. That's still my best sounding amp.

I know folks have mixed feeling about the Jensen RI's, but I've had good results with the ones I've tried, especially the C12N in my Blues Jr., and the P12Q in my Mission Amps 5E3. Good speakers for the money.

there are quite a few decent Eminence speakers - including lots of the new Patriot and Red Coat series. Scott_F might have some comments on a few of those. There is a huge thread on The Gear Page covering those... quite a few are high powered, highly efficient speakers, but they have something for most applications.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Some definite Vaultworthy info! The nice thing about changing speakers is that you can always sell the original to recoup much of your cost......provided it's not a collectible, where you'd want to save the stock speaker. It only seems recent that amp companies have been using mismatched or 'aged' speakers. It gives a much more 3D effect when you've got different speakers reacting to the amp's signal.

Has anyone ever tried 4 mismatched speakers? I'd love to load up a 4-12 with a Vintage 30, Greenback, G12H30, and G-75, and see how it sounds from a distance, and also be able to choose which speaker to mic for recording or live. Hmmm.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

I've got a Marshall 1965A loaded with 4 Celestion Vintage 10s, which are Alnicos....I also have 4 Reverend Alltone 10 ceramics I've been meaning to try out but haven't gotten around to.

I think I'll throw 2 ceramics in an X pattern & check it out....I'll report back for those who might care!

I HAVE noticed a big difference in closed back vs. open back on the 4x10.....big open huge sound with the back off....very tight & focused with the back on.

I guess I prefer the open tone, as I mainly use this cab for cleaner tunes with dirty duties going to the 2x12.

Blah blah blah.....GREAT info Lew:beerchug:

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Thanks guys!

A neat trick I learned with the Super Reverb and amps with four speakers is to connect three to one 1/4" plug that's plugged into the main speaker input and to connect the fourth speaker to a separate 1/4" plug and plug the fourth speaker into the extention speaker jack. Then, if you want to push your speakers a little harder for earlier break-up and a lower overall volume, you can unplug the fourth speaker and just use three speakers. Works great. Lew

 

[shred-dog]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

great stuff as always lew !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jmv]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

great post, great info, much appreciated.

i got a question.... if you've got an amp with 2 original Jensen C12N's, and you really like the amps sound but are a bit worried that the speakers are starting to go... what would you reccomend?? Still the Celestion G12H30 & Vintage 30, or is there a real good reissue of the original C12N that you like??

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Fender Deluxe Reverb: Celestion G12H30 (or Vintage 30)

How different is the sound from the Jensen RI's that come in DRRI's? How is the louder clean tone with that speaker?

 

[SoCalSteve]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Great info. I found, though that I like the U.S. made Eminence V12 over the now Chinese Vintage 30. At least for my amp's voicing and my ears. I would like to try that G12H30 sometime.

 

[twoheadedboy]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Has anyone ever tried 4 mismatched speakers? I'd love to load up a 4-12 with a Vintage 30, Greenback, G12H30, and G-75, and see how it sounds from a distance, and also be able to choose which speaker to mic for recording or live. Hmmm.

I've played a marshall cab set up that way. I think for playing live, it would be a little weird because depending on which spot you listen to the cab from, it can sound awesome or horrible. It's hard to know how to set your amp. The most I like to hear in one cab is usually two types of speakers. I think for recording it would be awesome to have a cab with 4 different speakers in it, though. No matter what head you plugged into it, you could probably find a useable tone from one of the speakers.

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

No, but I am using a 3 mismatch set up. A pair of v30's in one cab and Eminence Swamp Thang and Texas Heat in the other. The sound has a huge 3d effect to it. I'm thinking of mixing the TH/V30 and ST/V30 to see if that make the individual cab sound better.

Has anyone ever tried 4 mismatched speakers? I'd love to load up a 4-12 with a Vintage 30, Greenback, G12H30, and G-75, and see how it sounds from a distance, and also be able to choose which speaker to mic for recording or live. Hmmm.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Hey Jump.....how's the TH/ST combo sound???

 

[JumpMarine]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

It sounds HUGE. It's an interesting mix where the Eminece speakers don't break up as early as the V30's. It adds a whole different dimension to the sound. It's hard to explain. Individually the cabs sound good but one dimensional, plug in the second cab and whoa......wall of 3d sound.

Hey Jump.....how's the TH/ST combo sound???

 

[Sune]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

What cab and speakers would you smart guys recommend for a Peavey 5150 head?

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Hey Lew, I've got a '70 SF Vibrolux Reverb that needs some killer speakers, I like the description of the Weber A125 (I assume according to your post that they used to be called the P10Qs). I'm not sure what exactly the VR is rated for (the piece of paper on the inside of the amp is incorrect), what wattage speakers would you recommend? Also, would you recommend mixing speaker types or just sticking with one kind in both positions?

Thanks a lot Lew, I know you know Fenders very well and this is definitely vault-worthy material.

 

[Metalman_666]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

Wow... I never thought there was so much to take into consideration with speakers for cabs. Once again I've been Lew-Shocked. Vault material indeed.

 

[Curly]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

I'm not sure what exactly the VR is rated for

I think that's a 2 6L6 amp, right?
should be about 40 watts

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

great post, great info, much appreciated.

i got a question.... if you've got an amp with 2 original Jensen C12N's, and you really like the amps sound but are a bit worried that the speakers are starting to go... what would you reccomend?? Still the Celestion G12H30 & Vintage 30, or is there a real good reissue of the original C12N that you like??

Are they original Jensen C12N's from the 60's? Those are some sweet speakers if they are...used to be Eric Clapton's favorite speakers in the early 70's. The original Jensen C10N and C12N were the top of Jensen's line. I've come to appreciate the Celestion G12H30 over the Vintage 30 and of the two I think the G12H30 would have a tone more similar to the C12N. But the G12H30 would be louder, and more "Marshally" sounding than the C12N. The Jensen Reissue C12N is made in Italy and sounds pretty good and similar to the original C12N but not exactly the same. Those original C12N's are pretty sturdy speakers...I'd just enjoy it and be careful with it. Mine are still in great shape and I've pushed them pretty hard over the years.

If you ever need to get your original C12N reconed Ted Weber can do a nice job. Because the cone on the original Jensens is now 40 years old or so it has softened considerably. To retain that vintage tone I had Ted recone mine with a softer cone...the cone he uses for his version of the C12Q. Sounds excellant and when I compare my old C12N's with the original cones to my C12N that Ted reconed with his "Q" cone they sound very close.

So I think I'd recommend just enjoying your originals and when or if they ever need reconing just have Ted recone them with his C12Q cone.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Speakers: my suggestions for the ultimate in tone

How different is the sound from the Jensen RI's that come in DRRI's? How is the louder clean tone with that speaker?

The Celestion G12H30 will make the DR sound louder, clearer and just plain better all around. It'll make it so the amp doesn't fart out as much when you're gigging with it.