Staggered or Flat When & Why

[loudriver23]

Hey All,
This may be a silly question that I may or may not already know the answer to. But I would like some more ...... "Official/Experienced" points of view.
I have a MIJ strat that I'm looking to upgrade the PUP's in. I was thinking of the SSL's or the APS's for the Neck and Middle with a TwangBanger for the bridge.
My question is..... do I go for Staggered of Flat pole pieces? What is the reasoning for both?
MY GUESS.... it has something to do with the radius of the finger board... the less curved.. higher radius dimension I would think one should go with the Flat. With the Staggered used for the more rounded necks.
Is there a rule of thumb as to where the cut off is for flat and a staggered should be used instead? 10" 9.5"
Or am I way off and need some skewling?
Thanks
Loudriver

 

[jeremy]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

you pretty much got it. tighter radius ~ vintage stagger, flatter radius ~ flat poles.
that said, there is no rule.
staggered poles tend to be a little more chimey and maybe brighter? some people like staggered in the neck and middle with a flat in the bridge.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

I make the decision based on what I want to hear. Raised and staggered polepiece Strat single coils are brighter sounding because the middle polepieces are closer to the strings. Flatter polepiece Strat single coils are not as bright and not as present sounding. I kind of like flat poles for the bridge position and raised/staggered for the neck or middle position. Lew

 

[loudriver23]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

So with that said do you think an APS-1 for neck & Mid with a twangbanger would serve me well? Or should I go with the recommended APS-2/twangbanger combo?
Also do I need the middle PUP to be RW/RP?
I have a Mid 90's MIJ strat currently.
I'm just looking to have my strat sound like a strat again I currently have some Fender PUP's in the Neck n Mid which sound hella thin, with a JB Jr in the Bridge, which I'm also not too pleased with.
Thanks again,
Loudriver

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

Remember that the staggered design is from way back when there was no such thing as a plain G string, and .011 or .012 was probably the lightest E-string anyone could find -- because the electric guitar was still something very new. If you wanted something thinner than that, you had to use a banjo string.

So the G-string pole is much higher to compensate for the weakness in out put of a wound G vs. plain G compared to the plain E and B.

I definitely prefer staggered over flat but I would really prefer a Kinman radius if at all possible. Or better yet, I would wish that the rod magnets were loose enough that you could push them up and down for your own tastes but still tight enough that they wouldn't fall out.

 

[loudriver23]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

Remember that the staggered design is from way back when there was no such thing as a plain G string, and .011 or .012 was probably the lightest E-string anyone could find -- because the electric guitar was still something very new. If you wanted something thinner than that, you had to use a banjo string.

So the G-string pole is much higher to compensate for the weakness in out put of a wound G vs. plain G compared to the plain E and B.

I definitely prefer staggered over flat but I would really prefer a Kinman radius if at all possible. Or better yet, I would wish that the rod magnets were loose enough that you could push them up and down for your own tastes but still tight enough that they wouldn't fall out.

I use .011 guage strings in every axe I own. As for adjusting the Pole Pieces..... I just wanna play and have it sound good. I'm not really much of a tinkerer.... but appreciate the passion of those who do/are...
Loudriver

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

I would wish that the rod magnets were loose enough that you could push them up and down for your own tastes but still tight enough that they wouldn't fall out.

What a great idea. You should get a patent on that!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

So with that said do you think an APS-1 for neck & Mid with a twangbanger would serve me well? Or should I go with the recommended APS-2/twangbanger combo?
Also do I need the middle PUP to be RW/RP?
I have a Mid 90's MIJ strat currently.
I'm just looking to have my strat sound like a strat again I currently have some Fender PUP's in the Neck n Mid which sound hella thin, with a JB Jr in the Bridge, which I'm also not too pleased with.
Thanks again,
Loudriver

Sure! That's a great set. I also like the APS-2's with the Twangbanger. The Twangbanger has raised polepieces, BTW...not flat. Lew

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

Or better yet, I would wish that the rod magnets were loose enough that you could push them up and down for your own tastes but still tight enough that they wouldn't fall out.

The copper wire is wound directly around the six polepieces in a Strat pickup so moving the polepieces up and down tends to break the wire. It can be done...but it's very, very risky. Lew

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

That's why I don't do it. But a bobbin more like a P90 or humbucker bobbin in that the poles were shielded by a layer of plastic would make this possible.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

The copper wire is wound directly around the six polepieces in a Strat pickup so moving the polepieces up and down tends to break the wire. It can be done...but it's very, very risky. Lew

I once completely unwound an older American Standard Strat pickup (youthful curiosity), and the magnets were mounted inside the plastic bobbin. There was no direct contact between the magnets and the wire. Maybe SD pickups are different that way.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

I once completely unwound an older American Standard Strat pickup (youthful curiosity), and the magnets were mounted inside the plastic bobbin. There was no direct contact between the magnets and the wire. Maybe SD pickups are different that way.

If by magnets you mean the six polepieces, we're talking about the same method of construction.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

If by magnets you mean the six polepieces, we're talking about the same method of construction.

Yes, I am talking about the polepieces. There was no direct contact with the wire - there was a thin layer of plastic between them. Is that how most single coils are built?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

Yes, I am talking about the polepieces. There was no direct contact with the wire - there was a thin layer of plastic between them. Is that how most single coils are built?

Nope. But I guess some people do...

 

[loudriver23]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

What about the Middle PUP being an RW/RP? What is the benefit of this? Is it necessary? When is it necessary?

 

[Kac]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

the middle rw/rp reduces noise with you you that pickup combined with a split humbucker or with another single coil.

It's not always necissary, but some people prefer it.

In my HM strat I have a 3 way switch, so I get 1. Humbucker 2. Middle pup 3. Neck pup
no combination of pickups, so I do not have an rw/rp middle pickup.

Rock On!

 

[Simon_F]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

What about the Middle PUP being an RW/RP? What is the benefit of this? Is it necessary? When is it necessary?

In a guitar with 3 single coil pickups, having the middle pickup RW/RP makes the #2 and #4 positions hum cancelling. It's not strictly necessary (as the #1, #3 and #5 positions still have hum) but it is a nice to have (IMO).

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Staggered or Flat When & Why

No-hum in the notches is better than twice the hum, y'know?

I just wish RW/RP was around in the 60's so my Fender didn't hummm constantly...haha oh well.

-X