Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Silence Kid

Silence Kid

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What does this look like to you? Stain? Paint? Dye? It is dull/rough to the touch and 'feels like wood,' so I am inclined to believe it is stain but I've never known the difference between stain and dye, or if there's a transparent paint finish that could go on like that. Whatever it is, it's been on there for a while. What's the best way to find out?

If it is in fact stain I understand it's beneficial to have something above the wood to protect it, and there's no evidence of any top-coat here. Would you recommend Tru Oil or something else for the protective factor? Or is there any reason I should feel that is unnecessary?

As background, this was my Dad's guitar so I'm not really interested in changing the look of it, but I do want to make sure it's protected and not subject to moisture/sweat related issues or possible de-lamination.

57_body.jpg
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Stain is a dye.

Stain is usually a verb used to describe the process of wood colouration. But the word is also often used as a noun describing the liquid used.
All commercial guitars will have some sort of permanent finish on top. Whether that be an oil, or a more 'build-based' covering. Wood degrades quickly when exposed to air and moisture, so any guitar that comes with a warranty has some covering on to stop such an occurrence.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Awesome guitar! I love early G&Ls.

Don't do a thing to it. It looks like it's holding up fine.

Did your pops refinish it? That would be a rather unique factory finish if it is indeed factory.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Thanks. It's not an original finish and my father didn't do it; in fact he only had the guitar the last couple years. Guitar was originally black, someone stripped it and did this to it. Still I feel most comfortable retaining it at least appearing as he owned it.

I read references somewhere along the lines of "dye penetrates deeper than stain" which is where I got off thinking they were two different things.
 
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Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

As for dye vs stain, the main difference is that dyes don't use binders, while stains do. In other words, true stain is technically a hard finish (even though it is very thinned out), while dye is just a coloring. With a dye, all that remains after evaporation is the pigment. With stains, you have pigment and binder left after the solvent evaporates out. Many things sold as "stain" are actually just dye, though.
 
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Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Dyes and Stains are very much different. If you have some time here is a good video if you want more education on the subject.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Thanks for the clarity & video. Sounds like no one here so far suggests I have anything other than stain; and whether dye or stain, it sounds possible (at my discretion) to topcoat Tru Oil.

I am tempted to be paranoid and put at least some oil on top, a minimal amount to not alter the matte appearance much.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

If you really feel you must (and I wouldn't myself), I would use a wipe-on matte poly.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

I think you should look inside the control cavity, pickup cavity and/or neck pocket to see what the wood is like there to get more of an idea of what you may be dealing with. Tru Oil and wipe on poly are pretty easy to apply. I've done both. The key is to go slow and not put too much on.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Thanks again for the input- I tried this question again from a new angle, and am still deliberating over what to do.

I'm now leaning toward ReRanch satin clear for preservation- Yeah the guitar *seems* stable but I hear horror stories about cupping/warping and I still have no clue what finish is really on the body. Just had to rescue some of my dad's other guitars due to a blown up water heater in the house they were stored at, and cringed at the thought of what that moisture could have done to unfinished wood so I guess I'm spooked.

I'm hesitant to mention I kind of squirm at the thought of poly, as anyone I've so far spoken with about refinishing the guitar has indicated not a drop of it should go near this guitar- but I know that's subject to debate. The thing is, it sounds so great now, I wish I could just play it without worrying about it, so I hoped there was a way to 'prove' there was already protection on the body but seems it's not so easy as that. At the same time I am afraid of it sounding different.
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

I would just leave that thing as is.

Again, true stain is technically a hard finish, so it has sealing properties.

Guitar bodies might move here and there over time, but it isn't usually troublesome, as it is when necks do it.

There is no reason to be wary of poly, unless you must have lacquer-like aging. I usually go for lacquer on my projects, because I love the way it breaks in, and my projects are most often vintage-accurate – not because it's "superior" or because there is anything "bad" about poly. I love lacquer, but I don't discount poly and its advantages. It's a great finish material in the right application. It's awesome for a wipe-on matte finish application over a stain or dye.

But again, no need IMO. I think you should just leave the thing be.
 
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Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

Thanks again for your thoughts- does it change things if the body wood is mahogany? And to reiterate when I said it 'feels like wood' I mean that the grain is feel-able with your hand or fingernail.

And there is no cupping yet; also no cracking at the neck pocket, though the neck fit is VERY tight (precision I assume, rather than shrinking.)
 
Re: Stain/Tru Oil: Random Questions

I believe that what you're describing is simply a lack of pore filler. Mahogany grain is wide and deep relative to something like alder or maple. It needs to be heavily pore filled in order to have a smooth finish – just like ash.

Lack of pore filler doesn't mean that the grain doesn't get sealed by a finish. It just means that the finish gets chipped off more easily, starting at the edges of the grain lines.

But again, exposed mahogany body wood is really not a huge worry…especially if the edges are still sealed. I would be more worried about the maple neck being sealed or not.

Besides, that finish will look great as it slowly chips off over the years. I think what you have there is not too far off from the earliest versions of the Gibson Faded line in the early '00's. They were mahogany, not pore filled, finished with colored acrylic stains or the like (though over a white base coat). If you want to see what they look like well broken in, I dug up a photo of my friend Michelle's Special doublecut to show you:

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That's a badass looking guitar if ya ask me! It's even more beat now. This shot was taken back in 2012.
 
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