Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

[Plessure]

People argue whether it should be "floating" or "flush". I may be overlooking something, but it seems to me that a "flush" tremolo bridge knocks against the body of the guitar when released, unless one is extremely careful.

The best solution is to have the bridge "floating" but only so much that it doesn't knock against the body of the guitar when released. I now have mine set up to "float" about 0.3 mm and the tuning is certainly more stable than it used to be with the usual amount of "float".

I would estimate that 1 % of all whammy bar use is downward rather than upward. Does anyone here do upward whammy? What are some other opinions? Am i dumb? Can we now fight?

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I suppose if you just bent the bar down and then immediately released it, the bridge might knock against the body, but does anyone do that (unless it's on purpose for some reason)? Seems rather out of control to me. Having the bridge flush against the body means that the remaining strings should stay in tune if you break one. If it's floating even a little, the others will go sharp. Tough to finish a song that way when playing live.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I suppose if you just bent the bar down and then immediately released it, the bridge might knock against the body, but does anyone do that (unless it's on purpose for some reason)? Seems rather out of control to me. Having the bridge flush against the body means that the remaining strings should stay in tune if you break one. If it's floating even a little, the others will go sharp. Tough to finish a song that way when playing live.

I don't know. That might be a way i'm dumb. I'm an avid user of the whammy bar, so much that i had to remove it for years in order to develop my skill rather than wanking the whammy bar. When trying the "flush" setup, it seemed to knock during regular use.

What's to say flush guarantees tuning with string breakage? I don't see the logic. I see the logic with tension from the back of course, but i can't figure why the cut-off point would be exactly at flush.

I've only ever broken a string once or twice, despite sometimes playing hard to the point of spanking my instrument and getting cuts allover my right hand and fingers. I use no pick. Probably i have too little playing time to have experienced string breakage. If i broke a string in a live situation, i would just re-string, re-tune and make it a joke or whatever. Rather that than finishing a song half-assed.

 

[devastone]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

When a trem is floating the tension is balanced between the springs and the strings, if you break a string then that balance is changed, the springs have a higher tension than the remaining 5 strings until it finds the new balance point. At the new balance point the remaining five strings will be balancing against the same springs on the other side of the trem, so there will be higher tension per string, therefore their pitch will have changed.

In a band situation, it's not always possible to stop and change a string, then finish at your leisure. It's always good to have a backup, especially if you have a floating trem.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

When a trem is floating the tension is balanced between the springs and the strings, if you break a string then that balance is changed, the springs have a higher tension than the remaining 5 strings until it finds the new balance point. At the new balance point the remaining five strings will be balancing against the same springs on the other side of the trem, so there will be higher tension per string, therefore their pitch will have changed.

In a band situation, it's not always possible to stop and change a string, then finish at your leisure. It's always good to have a backup, especially if you have a floating trem.

Yes, that much is obvious. What isn't obvious is that enough spring pull to make it flush is also enough to keep it flush with only 5 strings. Or something like that.

Yes, a backup is of course best, but there is something to be said for a bizarre string-change ritual. If you have the lighting guy prepared, it could be a blast.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I keep it floating just enough that I can do subtle vibrato both upwards and downwards. So it can go maybe about 1/4 step up at the most and the rest is pure downwards. There is however, an noticeable increase in sustain when it is flush.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Yes, that much is obvious. What isn't obvious is that enough spring pull to make it flush is also enough to keep it flush with only 5 strings. Or something like that.

No, actually that is quite obvious: to use very round, although certainly inaccurate numbers, say that the vibrato unit is flush, and that the 6 strings generate 100 lbs. of tension, which is held flush by, say, 110 lbs. of tension coming from the springs. If you break a string, there is suddenly less total tension generated by the strings, perhaps 85 lbs. How is less tension possibly going to pull the bridge away from being flush? It will actually require more force on the bar to lower the pitch, as the springs then have less tension opposing them from the 5 strings.

As far as live, I guess it depends on your situation. If you are playing with another guitar player/keyboard/whatever, maybe you can just lay out and change the string for the rest of the song. But if you as the guitar player are playing a vital part, it's going to probably sound pretty lousy to either lay out, or play on 5 out of tune strings due to the nature of a floating vibrato system. Do what works best for you...many times, I have successfully gotten through to the end of a song on a flush-mount Strat with 5 remaining in-tune strings.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

No, actually that is quite obvious: to use very round, although certainly inaccurate numbers, say that the vibrato unit is flush, and that the 6 strings generate 100 lbs. of tension, which is held flush by, say, 110 lbs. of tension coming from the strings. If you break a string, there is suddenly less total tension generated by the strings, perhaps 85 lbs. How is less tension possibly going to pull the bridge away from being flush? It will actually require more force on the bar to lower the pitch, as the springs then have less tension opposing them from the 5 strings.

As far as live, I guess it depends on your situation. If you are playing with another guitar player/keyboard/whatever, maybe you can just lay out and change the string for the rest of the song. But if you as the guitar player are playing a vital part, it's going to probably sound pretty lousy to either lay out, or play on 5 out of tune strings due to the nature of a floating vibrato system. Do what works best for you...many times, I have successfully gotten through to the end of a song on a flush-mount Strat with 5 remaining in-tune strings.

Yes, you're right This is the embarrassing stupidity. I was much too eager. However, maybe you could set the float so minimal that if a string breaks and the bridge goes flush, there won't be a discernable difference? I'm still bugged by the knocking sound - but now that you've exposed my stupidity, i might try the flush again. Maybe i conjured the knocking sound in order to feign invention for myself.

Regarding the band situation, i was thinking more along the lines of stopping all the other band members and announcing a string change to the audience. Thereafter, the lighting guy would change the lights and the other band members would play a suitable drone. I don't pay very much attention to prestige, since i figure it won't help anyways if you're not awesome enough.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I prefer two post tremolos and set mine parallel to the body. I'm not sure if that is what is referred to as flush. It seems to me that setting the knife edges perpendicular to the posts should be the ideal setting and the one that should most reliably return the guitar to tune after trem use. With that set up and my moderate use I've never had the trem bottom out. Admittedly, I am not a radical user or dive bomber.

I am not concerned about how out of tune the guitar may become after a string break because for some reason(s) I don't break strings. I mean almost never. Good fresh strings and well cut nuts and bridges are a must.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I prefer two post tremolos and set mine parallel to the body. I'm not sure if that is what is referred to as flush. It seems to me that setting the knife edges perpendicular to the posts should be the ideal setting and the one that should most reliably return the guitar to tune after trem use. With that set up and my moderate use I've never had the trem bottom out. Admittedly, I am not a radical user or dive bomber.

I am not concerned about how out of tune the guitar may become after a string break because for some reason(s) I don't break strings. I mean almost never. Good fresh strings and well cut nuts and bridges are a must.

I think we're at the same thing. I use a six point but it's set up as a two-point, with the mid 4 screws quite loose.

 

[Chris Pile]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I'm not sure if that is what is referred to as flush.

Flush is sitting on the body - NO pullup at all.
And of course, no going out of tune if a string breaks.

I like floating, myself. But - different strokes for different folks.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

There is nothing apart from personal preference as to how a trem is setup. There are upsides and downsides to every option.

None of my trems are floating - there is only 1 guitar where the trem might knock and this is inaudible through the amp.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

However, maybe you could set the float so minimal that if a string breaks and the bridge goes flush, there won't be a discernable difference?

Regarding the band situation, i was thinking more along the lines of stopping all the other band members and announcing a string change to the audience. Thereafter, the lighting guy would change the lights and the other band members would play a suitable drone. I don't pay very much attention to prestige, since i figure it won't help anyways if you're not awesome enough.

Even if the float is minimal, the guitar will go out of tune to some degree with a broken string. How much that bothers you is your call...some people are a lot more sensitive to out of tune-ness on guitars than others. Also, due to the fact that the individual strings each have different tension, they will not all go sharp proportionately, as in the whole guitar uniformly goes 10 cents sharp. So, this can make the remaining strings sound out of tune to each other, to varying degrees...usually not a very nice sound. Sometimes I can hear the guitar go sharp when a string breaks on a flush-bridge Strat, or even on something like a Tele, due to there suddenly being less tension on the neck (and I use pretty think necks), and the resulting backbow pulling the strings sharp. Although this is usually very minimal, and I can still get through the song.

As far as live, if it's toward the very beginning of a song, I'd likely stop, make a comment/joke, and re-string (or grab another guitar). But more than a little ways into it, I feel like you're committed...at least, on pro gigs. Just my opinion, everyone's entitled...

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I love it floating. I like to bend notes up as well as down, and do all of the Jeff Beck/David Torn trem manipulations as an alternative to using fingers to bend a note. The best trem I've ever used was the Steinberger TransTrem, which allowed whole chords to bend perfectly in tune.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

The best trem I've ever used was the Steinberger TransTrem, which allowed whole chords to bend perfectly in tune.

Does the guitar in your picture have one of those? They were kind of cool...I don't think they're still available, are they? If so, they're hard to come by. It was nice that you could lock the thing down in the non-transposed setting and basically play the guitar as if it had a fixed bridge.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Anything other than five springs and the claw screwed tightly against the body is just wrong. There should be so much force crushing the tremolo against the body that God himself could not depress the bar.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Regarding the band situation, i was thinking more along the lines of stopping all the other band members and announcing a string change to the audience. Thereafter, the lighting guy would change the lights and the other band members would play a suitable drone. I don't pay very much attention to prestige, since i figure it won't help anyways if you're not awesome enough.

you dont gig much do you? if i broke a string in the intro of the song, then id stop say something dumb, switch guitars and start again. once the band kicks in, stopping the song in the middle is really amateurish. the song must go on!

if you like your trem floating, make sure you change strings regularly and your guitar is gone over regularly to avoid premature string breakage. if you gig, you should always have a backup guitar at the ready. personally if a guitar has a trem, i set it flush and deck it other than my one guitar with a floyd rose but i barely ever use it.

 

[Plessure]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

you dont gig much do you? if i broke a string in the intro of the song, then id stop say something dumb, switch guitars and start again. once the band kicks in, stopping the song in the middle is really amateurish. the song must go on!

if you like your trem floating, make sure you change strings regularly and your guitar is gone over regularly to avoid premature string breakage. if you gig, you should always have a backup guitar at the ready. personally if a guitar has a trem, i set it flush and deck it other than my one guitar with a floyd rose but i barely ever use it.

I've never gigged playing guitar.

Every good thing was once considered amateurish or something like that.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

not sure i agree with that last bit

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Does the guitar in your picture have one of those? They were kind of cool...I don't think they're still available, are they? If so, they're hard to come by. It was nice that you could lock the thing down in the non-transposed setting and basically play the guitar as if it had a fixed bridge.

No, the model in my avatar is called a Synapse, and it has a fixed bridge. The other model I have is called a ZT3, and that has the TransTrem 3...yes, you can lock that in any one of 5 positions for different tunings.