Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

No, the model in my avatar is called a Synapse, and it has a fixed bridge. The other model I have is called a ZT3, and that has the TransTrem 3...yes, you can lock that in any one of 5 positions for different tunings.

I realize this is off topic but I use to have this crazy OCD thing about Steinberger's & other headless guitars. No matter what model the aesthetics of it just put me off, & then I finally played one!

It was literally one of the easiest guitars to play I've ever had the pleasure of trying & just an absolute dream to handle as a gigging guitar. I was in a band with some older guys when I was about 17 & the bassist had one similar to your although I don't remember the exact model? I managed to break a string while we were playing a party one night (At the time I only had one electric & one acoustic.) & I was handed that thing while this guy's G.F. went to re-string my guitar....

I was so happy with how well it felt & played that I finished out the rest of our set using it!!! Playing that thing was like playing a strung feather that never went out of tune, & I've never had a bad word to say against them since....

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Cool story!
I like anything designed well, with balance and weight and ergonomics as a consideration, no matter what it looks like. Ned Steinberger might be an engineer, but he is also an artist.

 

[Nostalgic Distortion]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Cool story!
I like anything designed well, with balance and weight and ergonomics as a consideration, no matter what it looks like. Ned Steinberger might be an engineer, but he is also an artist.

You have to understand that I was born in 1980 so I'm definitely a product of the 90's musically... At that point in time everything was dirty/greesy hair, offset Fenders & flannel shirts!!! Basically my world view at the time was anything pointy with hot pups & a Floyd Rose tremolo obviously just sucked by default? Boy was I wrong!!!

God, I really which I'd known then what I do now because I can't even begin to tell you how many beautiful playing Charvel's, Jackson's, & Ibby's I passed up because of these silly preconceived notions. Back then I could have picked these things up for almost nothing in great shape because they just weren't selling very well, sometimes you couldn't give them away! Now I regularly see those exact same guitars in much, much, worse condition selling like hot cakes on Reverb for thousands of dollars!!!


Nowadays I know better then to judge a book by it's cover.... Although I still don't think I'll ever be able to look at a Steinberger without thinking about the singer/bassist from the Outfield. Remember that video, back when MTV still had some music on it occasionally?

LOL!!!

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Yes, that much is obvious. What isn't obvious is that enough spring pull to make it flush is also enough to keep it flush with only 5 strings. Or something like that.

Yes, a backup is of course best, but there is something to be said for a bizarre string-change ritual. If you have the lighting guy prepared, it could be a blast.

I don’t know man...if I were in a band with you and you broke a string and then stopped everyone mid song to change it...I’d be pissed at you. That’s unprofessional imo.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Yep.......if a band forced the audience to wait for a string change rather than just picking up a backup guitar I think most of the audience would vanish. Of course no quality band would do that, so I'm talking the local tavern battlers type.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Anything other than five springs and the claw screwed tightly against the body is just wrong. There should be so much force crushing the tremolo against the body that God himself could not depress the bar.

Bingo. We have a winner!!! :bigthumb:

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Yep.......if a band forced the audience to wait for a string change rather than just picking up a backup guitar I think most of the audience would vanish. Of course no quality band would do that, so I'm talking the local tavern battlers type.

Ya ever see that one video where SRV breaks a string and seamlessly switches guitars mid-solo?

I can't manage to get it to embed, but here it is:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JIFdMbhCa94

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Ya ever see that one video where SRV breaks a string and seamlessly switches guitars mid-solo?

I can't manage to get it to embed, but here it is:

Use the video link vs the old YT (second from left)

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Use the video link vs the old YT (second from left)

Thanks, I'll try that next time.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I deck it because I like to do a lot of pedal bends, and when using a floating trem, if i bend one note up, the other invariably goes down which i dont like. No guitar can do everything, so it is a matter of choosing the best setup for the way you play.

 

[Godin15]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

One of my guitars I have bridge locked with low action. My other one bridge setup with partial floating with low action, I find I get the best of both worlds I use the palm of my hand as the trem lever, I don't do any massive bends just like some movement.

 

[Zombiwoof]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

The vintage Fender Trem bridge was designed to be floating, at the right point it pivots on the V-shaped point that is caused by the bevel on the edge of the front of the plate. Putting it down to the wood means it won't "wobble" in both directions, it will only slack the strings. Also, it is not true that when decked it won't go out of tune when you break a string, it still will go out of tune as the tension of the remaining strings changes. As for the problem of bending one string having other strings go flat, that can be fixed to some extent by using the best number of springs for the string gauge you are using. I float mine so that pulling up to the max results in about a whole step change, usually that is at somewhere around 1/8" or so off the wood at the back of the plate. The only real way to minimize the out-of-tune problem when breaking a string is to block the bridge, of course then the trem doesn't work. It's a great design, but not perfect.
Al

 

[AlexR]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

^ The only way the string will go out of tune with a decked trem is due to the neck/trussrod tension. The 'out of tune' direction - it sitting closer to the body due to spring tension now overcoming string tension - is now impossible as its already as far that way as possible.
The times I've broken a string on my decked strats the others stay the way they were before.
edit - I should say functionally the way they were before. A few cents difference which is enough to ride the song out in most cases.

 

[MikeRocker]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Also, it is not true that when decked it won't go out of tune when you break a string, it still will go out of tune as the tension of the remaining strings changes. As for the problem of bending one string having other strings go flat, that can be fixed to some extent by using the best number of springs for the string gauge you are using.

I will agree that (as I mentioned in a previous post) when a string breaks on a Strat (or equivalent) with a flush-mount vibrato bridge, the remaining 5 strings will almost certainly not strobe perfectly to 440, due to less tension on the neck and the resulting very minor back-bow. However, the guitar will still be significantly closer to proper tuning than that of a guitar with a broken string and a Strat-style bridge which is floating...even floating just a little bit. Speaking from experience, I have played many, many gigs with flush-mount S-style guitars where I have broken a string mid-song, and made it to the end with nobody noticing anything being remotely out-of-tune. For that matter, the same type of very minor de-tuning would also happen on a standard-bridge Tele, or pretty much any other hard-tail guitar. I will go out on a limb and say that 99.99999+% of people in virtually any audience would never notice the slight out-of-tune-ness of a suddenly 5-string, flush-mount S-type guitar, so long as it is properly set up (and the neck isn't super-skinny). In my experiences with breaking a string on a flush-mount Strat, the missing string is a much bigger hindrance than the very subtle tuning shift. Tuning shifts occur constantly, hence the number of players with tuners on their pedalboards/clipped onto their guitars. Also, if you are floating a Strat bridge, there is always going to be some sag in the non-bent string when you do double-stop bends. There's not really any way around this...some players learn to compensate by subtly bending the "non-bent" string, and apparently there are devices which claim to resist this. I once read that Bigsbys tend to resist this sag better than Strat bridges, but they do still sag a bit. If you have enough springs and/or tighten them down enough to resist the sag, the bridge will then be flush.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I always used to set my 1960 Strat to float. I rarely do more than gentle quavers, but I do like to be able to pull the bar up and make it "whinny", ala Hendrix.

These days I set my G&Ls up to float as they are designed to do. Bridge plate is 3/16" above and parallel to the body. Very stable; Leo made a major improvement over the original "Synchronized Tremolo".

Bill

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I can think of 5 main ways to setup a Strat tremolo:

Prefaced by saying I'm not a luthier, just an engineer's mind that likes to tinker.

1. Flush, Blocked, Springs or No Springs
Pros:
Most stable tuning
Most contact with the body for sustain, different tone
String breakage doesn't matter
Cons:
No trem use
Tone is not as jangly as a floating bridge

2. Flush, springs cranked down tight
Pros:
Better tuning stability
No need to fit a block to the cavity
Trem is technically usable
Double bends remain in tune
String breakage doesn't matter
Cons:
Dive only
Tonal difference from dive to when the trem rests. (May be desired)

3. Flush, just enough spring tension to hold the bridge flush
Pros:
Easier trem use
Returning to flush should make tuning stability better than floating
String breakage doesn't matter
Start to get into the jangly Strat tone
Cons:
Dive only
Double bends go flat

4. Float, from slight to quite a bit, but less than #5
Pros:
Allows up and down trem including vibrato (big for me)
More jangly Strat tone
No tonal difference when you start to dive
Cons:
Double bends go flat
String breakage results in tuning issues
Potential for more tuning issues if the nut is not setup right

5. Float, E up 1/2 step, B up full step, G up 1-1/2 steps
Pros:
Up trem and down trem including vibrato
Precise up trem allows cool pedal steel like bends
Jangly Strat tone
Cons:
Requires precise setup
Action may be too high depending on Guitar & preference
Double bends go flat
String breakage results in tuning issues
Potential for more tuning issues if the nut is not setup right

I've done all 5, now I prefer a guitar setup like #4 and one like #2.

Feel free to mention the gaps and the additional pros/cons of each.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I like #5, and learned to rest my hand on the bridge doing double bends....

 

[RorySquier]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

I have my bridge floating on my '98 American Standard Strat. When I bend the vibrato arm up the 3rd string (G) goes up in pitch 3 frets. The 2nd (B) strings goes up 2 frets and the 1st string (E) goes up one fret to an F.

;>)/

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Stratocaster tremolo optimal balance

Yep, that's what I listed as #5.

They key to that setup is NOT an angled claw, but the correct string gauges. Luckily, the standard string gauges gets you those pitches! A very fun setup to use, especially when you have a well setup/lubricated nut.