Tapped single coil, or split rails?

[ratherdashing]

Hey boys and girls, I have a goal in mind for my H/S/S Strat.

I'm putting a JB in the bridge, and I want some single coils that will be able to match, or at least get in the ballpark of, its output. I don't mind a somewhat louder bridge sound, so long as it's not going to completely overpower the singles.

HERE's THE KICKER: I want to throw a push-pull in there that will put the guitar in "vintage mode". When you pull the knob up, it will split the JB, and either split or tap the singles depending on what they are. The goal is to have a Strat that can be big, fat, and bold, then go to a close approximation of vintage sparkle and chime at the flick of a switch.

I'm not asking about the wiring: I know how to do that, it's complicated but do-able. What I want to know is this: will I get a nicer low-output sound from a split single-sized bucker (like a Little 59 or a Cool Rails), or a tapped single coil (like a QP or a Custom Staggered)?

Anyone with experience with tapped singles or split rails please chime in! (pun fully intended )

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Go for the Stack Plus for the neck and middle. In humbucking mode it's the best there is. When split you'll have a tone just like a vintage Strat pickup and when you combine a split neck Stack Plus with a split middle Stack Plus you'll even have have humcancelling cuz the middle one is RW/RP.

Can't be beat...

Lew

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Wow, I would have never guessed Stack Plus. I always thought of it as a low output pickup. Is that not the case?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

It has a tone that sounds awesome with a bridge JB. AWESOME!!!

The Stack Plus is a little thicker/fatter sounding than a conventional vintage Strat pickup...but if you want the exact tone of a vintage Strat pickup you can split the Stack Plus and use only the top coil.

I'd say in the normal humbucking mode that it's at least 5% (or more) thicker or fatter than a normal vintage 50's Strat single coil.

Lew

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Well, it's not high output, that's for sure. The output of stacks should increase when split. If you're prepared for the output drop, it's a good choice. I personally don't mind lower output singles, even when I have a blasting hot humbucker.

But if you are specifically asking between tapped singles and split rails, I can say I've gotten fantastic results splitting rails pickups. The tonal variance between the two is far greater than a tapped single. Especially one that's supposed to be a super beefy single, like the 1/4lb. You won't get the stratty attack out of the 1/4lb when tapped. I've heard the 59's split well, but I haven't tried them. If you get two rails, you can wire them to cancel hum when split, just like the stacks.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Okay, now I'm confused. Frank says the output will go UP when you split a stack, but Lew says they are thicker/fatter sounding than a conventional vintage Strat pickup when in stack mode. I can't see how both of you can be right :33:

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Okay, now I'm confused. Frank says the output will go UP when you split a stack, but Lew says they are thicker/fatter sounding than a conventional vintage Strat pickup when in stack mode. I can't see how both of you can be right :33:

Is there something I'm missing?

I didn't say if the Stack Plus would be lower or higher in output when split.

However, the Stack Plus probably doesn't follow conventional rules when split because it's not a conventional Stack pickup. The bottem coil is not wound the same as the top coil and a resistor is used in conjunction with the bottem coil to raise it's DC resistance and to balance the two coils so that humcancelling will be achieved.

Evan told me about splitting the Stack Plus when I met him at NAMM...but I have not split it myself as yet. But Evan told me that the tone is just like a vintage Strat pickup when its split.

I believe him.

Lew

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Cool. Thanks a lot Lew! Your advice is tremendously helpful.

If anyone else has experience with what I'm trying to do, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[MikeS]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

will I get a nicer low-output sound from a split single-sized bucker (like a Little 59 or a Cool Rails), or a tapped single coil (like a QP or a Custom Staggered)?

In my experience, the tapped SCs are truer to vintage SC tones than split rails or SC sized buckers.

frankfalbo is correct that there is a bigger change in tone in the split vs full HB than the tapped SC, but IMO, the rails do not split well at all. The VR split was puny and thin in the middle position, and the CRn when split was slightly higher in output than the VR but still weak and thin. Neither pickup sounded like a vintage SC when split.

The QP tapped is one of my favorite pickups. The full coil is fat and powerful (humbucker fat) and the tapped mode has a more vintage flavor with slightly more output than vintage. I think the slightly higher output fattens it up a little, too, so if you are looking for an honost vintage tone when tapped, he QP might not be the best choice, but the difference between full and tapped is not subtle, and both modes are very functional and useful.

For a more vintage flavor, take Lew's advice. He seems to be the resident expert in that area, and if he's recommending the Stack Plus, then I'd assume they were the real deal. I've yet to get my hands on a set... I'm thinking about a full set in my HWY1 sometime down the road.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

I've got to go with the flow and say I really want to try the stack plus for this- But have to say that one of the best sounds I get in this catagory isn't with a SD pup- I've found the Dimarzio Cruiser one of the best clean strat midpup sounds, but you have to keep in mind that I spin a split everything-

Crusiser with the split JB is among the best 2 position strat sounds I've ever had in a nonstrat- Crusier also works well with the cool rail in the neck-

But I will try the stack as well-
Cheers

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

HERE's THE KICKER: I want to throw a push-pull in there that will put the guitar in "vintage mode". When you pull the knob up, it will split the JB, and either split or tap the singles depending on what they are. The goal is to have a Strat that can be big, fat, and bold, then go to a close approximation of vintage sparkle and chime at the flick of a switch.

And that is exactly what the Classic Stack Plus will NOT do. It will definitely go completely vintage when you split it. Don't get me wrong there, but the "other" sound you want, the big, fat, bold sound as an alternative to the vintage sound will not exist. I mean, the whole point of the Stack Plus is to continue to sound vintage with the undercoil engaged. No one's saying they aren't great, just that they ignore your initial request.

If you're splitting rails, there's no way they'll totally nail the vintage strat sound, but if your primary function is the "fat strat" sound then they're a good choice. Judging from your original post, you say you want the fat sound, and then a "close approximation" of the vintage tones. So it seems you're placing more emphasis on the fat strat sound. Is that true? The Stack Plus would nail the vintage sound (which you only needed a close approximation of) but offer you nothing for your main "fat strat" request. And I'd recommend splitting something like the Cruisers like zionstrat did. You can use something like a Cool Rails or Lil'59 in the neck along with it. The Fast Tracks/Pro Track also split well. Most of the Dimarzio rails are "dual resonance" so if you are getting a really thin, weak sound from the split, then access the other coil instead, it's probably the stronger of the two.

Anyway the CS+ is great. If you go that way, maybe choose the bridge model for your neck position, to go slightly fatter there.

I agree with Mike, too, that the 1/4lb tapped is a great choice, but can't nail a vintage tone when tapped. The magnetic field is too broad, so the attack is softened. That's why the split rails gets that hyper-sharp attack when split. The aperture is as narrow or narrower than a standard single. When you split a rails, you go from an aperture slightly larger than a 1/4" magnet to one that's slightly narrower than a traditional single. (and no dropouts)
:dance:

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Thanks guys.

I think I'll rule out splitting a single-sized hum if the consensus is that they won't sound very good split (which was my suspicion all along to be honest). I also don't really want a humbucker tone in those positions - I'd prefer something along the lines of a big fat single coil.

Right now I have Fender Texas Specials in the mid and neck, and they match well with the JB in terms of output (they are pretty hot as far as Strat pickups go). When I split the JB, it's not as good. I actually really like the sound of the JB split, but the TS's completely overpower it. What I would LOVE is something similar to a tapped Texas Special that dropped its output to match the JB's split tone.

Looking at the tone chart and listening to the clips, I am thinking the Custom Staggered would actually be a pretty good match. What do you guys think?

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Custom Staggered would probably be perfect. Tapped, it will be more stratty than a 1/4lb for sure. Try to make it so you can tap the middle single independently of the neck single. You might like that mismatched sound, and it will still cancel hum.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

You really should consider the Stack Plus and JB. That set will do what you describe. It's my absolute favorite S/S/HB set I've ever used and you can get a super wide range of vintage Strat, modern Strat and vintage to hot Humbucker tones from it. Lew

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Lew, I like that idea, because in "modern" mode I would have no hum whatsoever. I have the old Classic Stacks in my other Strat, and they're very cool, but I want to make sure I can get more juice out of this guitar. Can you tell me how the output and tone between the two compares?

Thanks!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Tapped single coil, or split rails?

Lew, I like that idea, because in "modern" mode I would have no hum whatsoever. I have the old Classic Stacks in my other Strat, and they're very cool, but I want to make sure I can get more juice out of this guitar. Can you tell me how the output and tone between the two compares?

Thanks!

I don't have much experience with the original version. I know when Duncan was sending me prototypes of the new version that the goal was to get as close as humanly possible to the tone of the Antiquity Surfer and the pickups in my '63 Strat. I felt we got about 95% of that tone with the new Classic Stack Plus. The 5 or so % that is differant is that the Stack Plus has a fuller tone...more thickness to the mids than the original pickups in my '63 Strat. That fuller quality to the tone is what makes the Stack Plus sound so compatable with the JB. Most single coils sound to bright and thin to compliment the JB. The Stack Plus has an extremely musical and inspiring tone, IMO. It lacks nothing! Lew