The importance of cutting through a mix

[El Dunco]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

To clarify my points, when I say "cutting through", it means that my sound comes through to my ears clearly enough that I don't have to play too loudly to hear my parts in the mix. My tone still sits in the mix perfectly, and blends well in its own space with the other instruments, but I have enough of my tone so that I don't have to play too hard or keep my guitar volume on 10 all the time, which severely limits my ability to use dynamics. When I cut through the mix, I can play with finesse, but if I don't then my sound out front is always brash.

That's cool, no-one was saying "if you want to cut through the mix you're wrooooong!", if it seemed like that's what I meant, it's not. We get that's what everyone means when they say cut but it's interesting to discuss because it is kind of a misnomer. I do think a lot of gear that advertises with "cut through the mix like never before!" actually does intend it literally to appeal to the naive, guitar-centric folks to sell them stuff they don't need that you could do just by knowing your place in the mix and how to work with what you have. Those of us who know that don't have problems being heard and those who do, it's not hard to figure out why.

"More mids? Naah, you need more watts!"

 

[VinceT]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

"More mids? Naah, you need more watts!"

Naah, you need this boost pedal to boost your boost pedal that's boosting the drive pedal that's driving the distortion pedal that's distorting the dirt channel on your amp... BUY BUY BUY!!!!! [emoji1]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

Indeed. Since I started using 2 x 10 cabinets, I find I can be 'present' without being stupidly loud. If I'm the only guitarist, I can sit 'in' the sound and create the illusion of the rhythm section being 'bigger'. I know a lot of guys enjoy the bigger 'thump' provided by 4 x 12 cabs and sealed-back cabs, but in my experience, that big low end doesn't translate in a PA mix or recording, and may well mess with the clarity of the lower sounds such as bass, drums and probably parts of some keyboard sounds.

Same singer brought a Tubeworks 4x12 to a gig. I had my trusty Carvin 2x12 open-back cab. We both had the same head: Fender RocPro1000. His rig sounded nice and beefy until the band kicked in, then he was buried. He dimed the mids and volume, and was still buried. Meanwhile, with my head EQ on 5 and volume on 4, I was clear as a bell.

Big box went bust.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

Both. He wanted it set up so when the vocal mic was receiving, the ducking would drop the music a bit. I was busy looking into frequency separation to make everything sit neatly together.

I've seen ducking used quite a bit in metalcore genres and the like, where everything is really dense...but even then they are just barely bringing the guitars down when the vocals kick in etc.

Then I had to go into a Master's Degree lecture on what can and cannot be "fixed in the mix" and why, with examples.

Apparently being a hermit with a 4-track was one of the better decisions I ever made.

Yes it was, hands on is the best way to learn, especially with audio!

 

[NecroPolo]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

I did not read everything but I guess in a mean that is the most important thing: having a sound that puts your guitar parts into their place without masking the other sonic elements of your band. Too low or too harsh is bad, mids are the lifeblood but must be used in conjunction with the environment. The same goes with bass guitar, too middy can eat both the vocals and guitars, sub bassy may kill the kickdrum - and so on so on forth.

To a depth, I believe in cutting rather than boosting so "cutting through" ( = boosting your way through) may not be the appropriate term for the way that I think to be working well both onstage and in the studio, in my experience.

Maybe, "filling its space only and cutting unwanted frequencies" is a way better definition.

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

I really like it when guitarists compliment each other rather than sounding totally different.

Not cloning exact sounds, that sounds poor. But close and not so close.

I think that is the reason why some guitar players claim using two different amps with different characters sounds more interesting than two of the same?

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

I typically turn down my bass when I'm in a band context.

As a matter of fact, I learned quite a while ago the way to sound great at higher volumes was to turn the bass down because the low end can get flubby due to increased speaker movement.

Then, if I'm still not cutting, I'll turn up the mids. Treble gets adjusted to where it's not painful to listen to.

But what happens with bands using 7 or even 8-9 string guitars? Are they doomed to sound muddy or will thye bass player be the one buried in the mix?

 

[IMENATOR]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

Sometimes it's best to 'fill in' the mix rather than cut through it. I've been writing songs with another guitarist and the way my rhythm tone fills the lows and highs allows her lead tone to sit up front.

I think this is the best comment ever in a guitar forum.

 

[jeremy]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

But what happens with bands using 7 or even 8-9 string guitars? Are they doomed to sound muddy or will thye bass player be the one buried in the mix?

doesnt have to. when ive mixed these bands i suck a lot of the mids from the bass and fit the guitars in there. bass is mixed with a deep but narrow frequency bottom, and some upper mid/highs to give clarity and shape to the note. granted im not a huge metal head and not a full time foh engineer but if i can get it to work better sound techs should have no issue. the guitars always seem to have TONS of bottom from their amps which of course they dont want to dial back so i mix around it

 

[aleclee]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

the guitars always seem to have TONS of bottom from their amps which of course they dont want to dial back

And there you have a large segment of musicians in bands that complain about "cutting through".

 

[El Dunco]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

doesnt have to. when ive mixed these bands i suck a lot of the mids from the bass and fit the guitars in there. bass is mixed with a deep but narrow frequency bottom, and some upper mid/highs to give clarity and shape to the note. granted im not a huge metal head and not a full time foh engineer but if i can get it to work better sound techs should have no issue. the guitars always seem to have TONS of bottom from their amps which of course they dont want to dial back so i mix around it

Just because the note is low doesn't mean the bass level has to bass has to be as well. After all, there's plenty of bands over the years with 7 strings and ultra low tunings that have no problem fitting it all together.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

I think that is the reason why some guitar players claim using two different amps with different characters sounds more interesting than two of the same?

Oddly enough, even when I played through my singer's muddy 4x12, it was as clear and bright as my 2x12. When he played through my 2x12, it was muddy.

We even swapped the same guitar back and forth to make sure it wasn't that. He just had a naturally dark tone, and mine was naturally bright. I even used his pick.

I had a Strat that he could get this deep "whale song" note out of. When I tried it, it was more of a screech :lol:

2 players can definitely use the same model of amp and still get 2 different tones out of, even if all the knobs are set the same. Unless they went to GIT :lol:

 

[aleclee]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

Oddly enough, even when I played through my singer's muddy 4x12, it was as clear and bright as my 2x12. When he played through my 2x12, it was muddy.

We even swapped the same guitar back and forth to make sure it wasn't that. He just had a naturally dark tone, and mine was naturally bright. I even used his pick.

I had a Strat that he could get this deep "whale song" note out of. When I tried it, it was more of a screech :lol:

2 players can definitely use the same model of amp and still get 2 different tones out of, even if all the knobs are set the same. Unless they went to GIT :lol:

I had a similar experience too many decades ago. When my buddy played through my rig, it sounded totally different. Kinda reinforces the old story about Uncle Ted playing through EVH's rig. There's a lot to be said for picking mechanics and its effect on one's tone.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: The importance of cutting through a mix

King Buzzo has a good nugget of advice to let someone else (preferably better) to play through your rig to hear its potential and what you may be doing wrong.