The old Custom story...

[sombersoul]

Yes, I've read most threads I could find about the Custom family (i.e. C, C5 and CC), but I still cannot decide which of these is best for my SG Standard. As can be read elsewhere on this board, I already had the original PUs (which were way too shrill) replaced by a DD in the bridge and a '59 in the neck. So, the sound is fuller, the highs are not piercing anymore, but I'm not satisfied with the overall sound. I wish for something more organic and articulate, even warm-sounding. Now, the way I see it, the rig is just as important as the guitar and PU types. I'm playing through a 6505 head connected to a 5150 4x12 cab. The amp itself is rather bright, I would say. The original Gibson PUs sounded like ice-picks.

I'm aware of the fact that the C5 is generally praised as being the prodigy pickup for the SG. But I've also read in this forum that it can have rather shrill highs, too, and I'm concerned that it might not be the right pickup for my rig then. I'm definitely after a thick, warm sound with smooth highs. Here the CC comes in. On the other hand, I play a lot of rhythm guitar, so my main application would be powerchords and powerful palm mutes. I'm mainly torn between the C5 and CC now, although I'm also considering the C or even the C8?

I want to do it right this time and be happy with my PUs. Overall I think that the Custom family will please me, but of course I won't find out until I actually plug in my guitar. I also know that the Customs can be converted to their "siblings" by swapping magnets, but this is something that I do not wish to do myself.

So, perhaps someone can give me a hint as to which of the four PUs might be perfect for my guitar and amp combination? Right now, I'm sort of leaning towards the CC for the fat, dark and warm sound. But will it respond well to palm mutes as regards low-end punch?

(I just realized that my favourite store doesn't have the SH-15.)

I'm sorry if this topic is annoying to regular forum posters, and I've honestly studied all the information I could find, but I still cannot make up my mind and would appreciate input from more experienced users.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: The old Custom story...

I've honestly studied all the information I could find, but I still cannot make up my mind

I hear you. At this point, you don't need words, you need to hear'em to make up your mind, isn't it?

So use the three-week return policy and try'em by yourself. Order the C5 forst, as from what I've read it seems the one you more likely be satisfied with. I've got an Epi SG-400 custom with that combo ('59 neck, C5 bridge) that sounds nothing less than wonderful.

I play all kinds of music and I use mainly two SD combos: JazzB on neck and C5 bridge in a 335 copy and a '59N on neck and again a C5 in the bridge with tha SG-400.

YMMV, but I think you'll have a good starting point.

HTH,

Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
Milano, Italy

 

[sombersoul]

Re: The old Custom story...

The problem is I cannot just return the pickup. I would buy it at my favourite store and then have a tech install it. Firstly, they don't do returns (they're not some big Internet music store) and secondly, I would have to pay the tech yet again to pull the PU out, if I shouldn't like it. Of course, I could order the PU over an online store which has a 30-day-return policy, but I can't (and won't) install it myself.

Yes, of course I would like to actually hear the difference between the Customs. From the descriptions alone it's hard to decide which one is perfect for me. The CC beefs up thin-sounding guitars. The C5 has scooped mids which would also go well together with the mid-heavy SG. The 6505 amp is also said to be upper-mid heavy. Ah well, I don't know....:dunno:

 

[hamerfan]

Re: The old Custom story...

Hi. somber! Installing pups are not stellar physics. If you know a guy with a solder gun, you are done!
BTW where are you coming from?

 

[sombersoul]

Re: The old Custom story...

Hamerfan: I don't even know someone with a solder gun. Don't get me wrong: I'm not averse to things technical. But only on a theoretical level. I'm honestly not good at actually doing these things.

I'm from Austria. Why do you ask?

 

[saladin]

Re: The old Custom story...

I wish for something more organic and articulate, even warm-sounding.

C5 is what you want. If you want organic you won't like the Custom and the CC is anything but warm. Maybe try the C5 with a 250k pot. It will tame the highs and bring out the mids. I personally use the C5 in all my guitars and love it.

 

[Iron Horse]

Re: The old Custom story...

CC anything but warm ? what the heck ? It would propably be too warm for him. But yeah, the C5 is a good choice.

 

[blueman335]

Re: The old Custom story...

C5 is what you want. If you want organic you won't like the Custom and the CC is anything but warm. Maybe try the C5 with a 250k pot. It will tame the highs and bring out the mids. I personally use the C5 in all my guitars and love it.

+1. The C5 with 250K's has some warmth & enough treble for bite, but not so scooped sounding. You'll still cut thru the mix. With a ceramic magnet (Custom) it's kind of bright & sterile for me; just lacks the organic alnico feel. The CC (A2) is good, but the top end can be too rounded in some guitars. I've tried all three, and ended up with C5's.

 

[Rowan]

Re: The old Custom story...

In the long run it might be worth it to order an SH-15 from another store. Or the custom 8 might be your ticket. Check out this thread for comparisions of the alt 8 and Custom 8.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=141919



I used to have a 5150 II and the alt 8 was much nicer to the ears than the DD through that amp. A more organic and rounded lead voice without being dark.

 

[sombersoul]

Re: The old Custom story...

First of all, thanks for the many replies! This board is really friendly and helpful, even if the same questions are being asked over and over again (which I know I've done).

I just checked two major online music stores in the German speaking world and neither carries the SH-15. Is it available in Europe at all? Well, but for the moment, the 8s are out of the game, it seems.

Rowan, I think the Peavey is a great amp and I want to keep it at all costs. But it is also a difficult amp in some respects, at least in my experience. It doesn't accept distortion pedals or Multi-F/X very well. Everything comes out so incredibly bright. I think it's an amp that you play by itself with its own distortion. Then it shines! Anyway, I find the DDs overall good but a bit harsh through this amp. Maybe it's mids-overkill: SG = middy guitar, DD = lots of mids, Peavey = mid-heavy. What really bothers me, though, are the cleans, which sounds totally nasal, hollow and lifeless. Ugh! I know this amp is not made for cleans, but using a different guitar through it at least gives me something to work with. But the DDs don't cut it here. My old EP SG-400, which is loaded with a DDn (!) in the bridge OR a PGn in the bridge (the tech screwed up big time here, something I only noticed not so long ago) sounds totally different and overall great, though. Mysterious!

Anyway, after spending HOURS on this board, reading up all threads on the Customs, I think one of them is my ticket to satisfaction. I also think that the Peavey amp doesn't need any over-the-top high output PU or anything that is specifically designed for metal, since it can do that all by itself. A warmer, more organic PU would be more versatile and welcome. Still, I play a lot of heavy rhythm (which you could call metal or not), so I do need low-end, chunk and a generally fat sound for full power chords.

My concerns about the various Customs so far are:

C5 - might be the best PU with the SG Standard, but I'm concerned that it might be too bright for my taste (higher strings), especially with my amp.

CC - I like warm and also sweet, creamy and rounded highs, which this PU supposedly produces. However, it is has more mids than the C5, which again may not be good with my guitar-amp combination.

C - May sound ultra-heavy, metal-like, but may not be versatile, sterile and cold-sounding (plus it has a ceramic magnet, like the DD).

Are my impressions correct so far?


Haha, I just realized that my favourite store doesn't even have the CC (well, at least it's not listed on their website). I must say that as far as music stores are concerned the infrastructure is not very good where I live. We only have a handful. The rest is online stores. And, as I said, I depend on a tech to install the PU. It seems the choice is being made for me in favour of the C5. I'm getting closer to pull the trigger on that one. Any more comments on the C5 - SG - 6505 combination?

Anyway, once I've decided I'll post my impressions of the new pickup here, so that my experience may (or may not) help other guitarist interested in the Customs. The search for tone is never-ending...

 

[blueman335]

Re: The old Custom story...

My concerns about the various Customs so far are:

C5 - might be the best PU with the SG Standard, but I'm concerned that it might be too bright for my taste (higher strings), especially with my amp.

CC - I like warm and also sweet, creamy and rounded highs, which this PU supposedly produces. However, it is has more mids than the C5, which again may not be good with my guitar-amp combination.

C - May sound ultra-heavy, metal-like, but may not be versatile, sterile and cold-sounding (plus it has a ceramic magnet, like the DD).

Are my impressions correct so far?

Yes.

 

[sombersoul]

Re: The old Custom story...

So, I really need Custom 5 Custom Custom. :lol:

UPDATE: I decided that the theoretical research phase should be over, so I took my guitar to the store today to have the C5 installed. Should get it back tomorrow or on Friday. Will report on it, of course.

 

[blueman335]

Re: The old Custom story...

UPDATE: I decided that the theoretical research phase should be over, so I took my guitar to the store today to have the C5 installed. Should get it back tomorrow or on Friday. Will report on it, of course.

I think you got the best one of them for an SG.

 

[uOpt]

Re: The old Custom story...

Yes, I've read most threads I could find about the Custom family (i.e. C, C5 and CC), but I still cannot decide which of these is best for my SG Standard. As can be read elsewhere on this board, I already had the original PUs (which were way too shrill) replaced by a DD in the bridge and a '59 in the neck.

I can't find that the DC and the DD sound drastically different. Sure, different, but very much the same style. If you don't like the DD you are unlikely to like the DC.

So, the sound is fuller, the highs are not piercing anymore, but I'm not satisfied with the overall sound. I wish for something more organic and articulate, even warm-sounding. Now, the way I see it, the rig is just as important as the guitar and PU types. I'm playing through a 6505 head connected to a 5150 4x12 cab. The amp itself is rather bright, I would say. The original Gibson PUs sounded like ice-picks.

I'm aware of the fact that the C5 is generally praised as being the prodigy pickup for the SG. But I've also read in this forum that it can have rather shrill highs, too, and I'm concerned that it might not be the right pickup for my rig then. I'm definitely after a thick, warm sound with smooth highs. Here the CC comes in. On the other hand, I play a lot of rhythm guitar, so my main application would be powerchords and powerful palm mutes. I'm mainly torn between the C5 and CC now, although I'm also considering the C or even the C8?

I don't have a SG, but I assume it must sound similar to my old Explorer, which was very dark and aggressive. I didn't think the C5 was great in that guitar.

The CC to my ears sounds totally dead in both LPs and in pure mahogany guitars. It must sound better in Fender style guitars, otherwise I can't figure out why people like it. (it's possible my particular one is darker than others, with A5 it sound just great with no screech)

Overall I'm not sure the Custom coils are your path to salvation.

I estimate that a Jazz in the neck and an APH in the bridge suit you. The Jazz is clean and sweet, if you want something warmer you can go with A2 in the neck.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: The old Custom story...

I really like the CC in my Strat and will probably try it in my SG-X eventually, since that's a pretty bassy guitar. It is a midsy, crunchy pickup tho, doesn't sound like you really need a whole lot more crunch to your tone.

You made a good move in goin out and gettin the pickup, I would just grab a couple magnets to go with it in case you don't like it. I mean if you've got the finger dexterity to play a guitar you should be able to handle swappin out a li'l magnet, and you'll save yourself a decent chunk of change in the process.

 

[sombersoul]

Re: The old Custom story...

Time to update the thread:

I got my SG with the new Custom 5 pickup today. Unfortunately, I won't be able to test it through my main rig for over two weeks, since I'm going on holiday on Friday. However, I did play the SG through my Class A bedroom combo and also through my Line 6 Podxt Live.

Here are my first impressions:

Output: Having played Duncan Distortions for a couple of years, I immediately noticed the reduced output. My Class A combo distorts less than before. But output is not really an issue, since I mainly play through a 6505 head, which has more than enough gain all by itself.

Tone: I would describe the overall tone of my SG as more neutral now. Definitely vintage-sounding (as opposed to the DDs). Good string to string definition, no mud at all even with heavy distortion. Full chords sound good, too. All in all I would say more organic and articulate than the DDs.

The clean sound is rather bright and thin...or maybe that's the vintage quality. And I guess the reduced mids also take away some body. The top end is also rather bright but not harsh (through my equipment at home anyway...I still worry about the Peavey). When I started playing through the Podxt Live with my good headphones connected, I immediately noticed the tight and big-sounding low-end.

Now, I don't feel I've properly tested the guitar yet, since the tiny Class A combo with its 8" speaker and the Podxt with its fizzy sounding distortions are not really representative of the sound I normally get with my regular gear.

So far I would say that the C5 works well in the SG, although coming from the DD I also find it less fat-sounding (again, probably due to the reduced mids). On the other hand, now the nasality in my cleans which I never could get rid of with the DD is gone!

The sound samples on the Seyrmour Duncan homepage are fairly representative of the sound I got so far. Now I'm more than curious to see if this pickup works through my main gear. I'll write another update in a few weeks when I'm back.

I think the C5 significantly alters my sound, and this isn't a bad thing. I will have to see how the new crystal-clear clean and low-end / top-end-heavy distorted sound fits in with my songs. I will keep the PU and play live with it in August, and then I'll decide if it stays or will maybe be converted to the Custom Custom.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: The old Custom story...

Just a couple of simple but very important pointers.

If you find the sound to be too bright and haven't done so already, do try 250K pots instead. This should take some of the shrillness.

Also, the Custom family of pickups as you may know all share the same bobbins and just have different bar magnets.
If you find that the C5 is not to your liking then all you have to do is get an A2 and/or A8 bar magnet and replace it to have a CC and/or a Custom 8 respectively.

That should save you a considerable amount of money me thinks

Oh, BTW, if you want to avoid repeated trips to the tech (and still don't want to learn how to use a solder gun) just use alligator clips to keep the leads in place, test it out ot see if you like it and only go to the tech once

Tell us how it'll go

 

[jimlp]

Re: The old Custom story...

If the C5 doesn't work out try the Rio Grande BBQ, warm, fat and singing.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: The old Custom story...

so use the three-week return policy and try'em by yourself.

+1

 

[alex1fly]

Re: The old Custom story...

+1 on trying a 250k pot if the high end is a bit much. It won't change a lot, but it can change it enough to make it "right." Also, about the magnet swapping, its so easy. I swapped magnets without even reading the threads on here. If you read the threads though, you'll breeze through it, and then wonder what you were so worried about