The Scoop On LP's
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Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: The Scoop On LP's
A lot of people say that the 59 is the best Les Paul because that's when all of the sought after LP elements came together in one instrument. The bookmatched maple top, Tuno-o-matic bridge and stop tailpiece, PAF humbucking pickups, and the beautiful sunburst finishes were all first found in conjunction with each other on the 58 LP. The crowning touch was the use of more highly figured woods for the tops on the 59 models.
As to when they crapped out, general concensus seems to point at the models porduced under Norlin, though some good examples are still present throughout this time.
Not all the newer models have issues, but some models do have problems with detail and fret work. Newer Pauls aren't bad instruments, it's just that for $2000, people expect an instrument that was built with more attention to detail.
In my opinion, if you want a newer Paul of excellent quality and don't mind it not saying Gibson on the headstock, Hamer and Heritage are good places to start looking.
A lot of people say that the 59 is the best Les Paul because that's when all of the sought after LP elements came together in one instrument. The bookmatched maple top, Tuno-o-matic bridge and stop tailpiece, PAF humbucking pickups, and the beautiful sunburst finishes were all first found in conjunction with each other on the 58 LP. The crowning touch was the use of more highly figured woods for the tops on the 59 models.
As to when they crapped out, general concensus seems to point at the models porduced under Norlin, though some good examples are still present throughout this time.
Not all the newer models have issues, but some models do have problems with detail and fret work. Newer Pauls aren't bad instruments, it's just that for $2000, people expect an instrument that was built with more attention to detail.
In my opinion, if you want a newer Paul of excellent quality and don't mind it not saying Gibson on the headstock, Hamer and Heritage are good places to start looking.
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papersoul
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
There are too many variables to consider when buying a guitar. I thought I could get what I wanted in the LP copies such as Hamer but they feel, play, and sound very different. I finally ended up buying an LP Standard and couldn't be happier. I say, just play a bunch till you find what you want. I never liked the playability of Hamers but that is just me.
There are too many variables to consider when buying a guitar. I thought I could get what I wanted in the LP copies such as Hamer but they feel, play, and sound very different. I finally ended up buying an LP Standard and couldn't be happier. I say, just play a bunch till you find what you want. I never liked the playability of Hamers but that is just me.
ledzepp29
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
the 50's, 60, and 68 pauls are the most sought after pauls, then when norlin came in in 69 the specs changed, in theory these specs were improvements but they didn't compare to those early pauls and many suffered from poor woods and attention to details as gibson was very low on money. I played a 72 deluxe goldtop(norlin era) which was killer, it had the best feel to it, there are good norlins you just got to find them. Pauls made in the 90's were supposed to be very good as well, said to be the next best after the late 50's pauls. Not saying they compete with those 50's pauls because the PAFs kicked any pickups ass. I've got 99 paul which I love, and honestly I've never met an LP I didn't like.
the 50's, 60, and 68 pauls are the most sought after pauls, then when norlin came in in 69 the specs changed, in theory these specs were improvements but they didn't compare to those early pauls and many suffered from poor woods and attention to details as gibson was very low on money. I played a 72 deluxe goldtop(norlin era) which was killer, it had the best feel to it, there are good norlins you just got to find them. Pauls made in the 90's were supposed to be very good as well, said to be the next best after the late 50's pauls. Not saying they compete with those 50's pauls because the PAFs kicked any pickups ass. I've got 99 paul which I love, and honestly I've never met an LP I didn't like.
theboatcandream
dreamonologist
Re: The Scoop On LP's
Why the 68?
Why the 68?
ledzepp29
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
And Ibanez did make clones of pauls but if I'm not mistakin they were bolt ons which really doesnt gel with the way les pauls are supposed to sound. I have heard of people with nice ibanez clones, again the signiture gibson 'feel' was not there
gibson stopped making les pauls in 1961 because of poor sales, so gibson designed the sg and kept the les paul name. The les paul we know as a les paul came back in 1968 in the custom model and was the last les paul to be made before norlin came in(when norlin came in they stopped making PAFs and changed the specs) So anything from 52-68 is highly sought after including the sgs because they also had PAFs.theboatcandream said:
And Ibanez did make clones of pauls but if I'm not mistakin they were bolt ons which really doesnt gel with the way les pauls are supposed to sound. I have heard of people with nice ibanez clones, again the signiture gibson 'feel' was not there
ledzepp29
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
I highly recomend buying a used 90's les paul because they are very cheap and are really good. I got my LP classic for 1100. Also another factor about 90's les pauls compared to 2000-present is that 90's were one piece of solid mahogany, not 2-4 glued together. And the norlin LPs had pancake bodies which were multiple slices of mahogany glued together horizontally. That really isn't a big deal at all I just was stating a fact
I highly recomend buying a used 90's les paul because they are very cheap and are really good. I got my LP classic for 1100. Also another factor about 90's les pauls compared to 2000-present is that 90's were one piece of solid mahogany, not 2-4 glued together. And the norlin LPs had pancake bodies which were multiple slices of mahogany glued together horizontally. That really isn't a big deal at all I just was stating a fact
rspst14
Tone Cat
Re: The Scoop On LP's
Because '68 was the last year of the longer neck tenon. After that, Gibson switched to a shorter neck tenon with a volute. In general, the longer neck tenon is a better design, and they are still used in some of the historic models.
I was interested in picking up a Les Paul, but I felt the prices were ridiculous, even for a used one. A used Paul from the Norlin era will still run you $1000, and those are generally considered the least desireable of all the LP's. That's how I ended up with a Hamer, and I'm really happy with it. I feel their quality control is much better than Gibson's. When you get your hands on a good one, it's hard to beat a Les Paul. But with quality control slipping, it's getting harder and harder to do that. I have no problem buying a guitar on Ebay, without playing it first, but I wouldn't even think about doing that with a Gibson. In general, here's how I'd rank them from best to worst...
50's and 60's models, up to 1968
90's models
current models
80's models
Norlin era models (1969 through mid/late 70's)
Ryan
theboatcandream said:
Because '68 was the last year of the longer neck tenon. After that, Gibson switched to a shorter neck tenon with a volute. In general, the longer neck tenon is a better design, and they are still used in some of the historic models.
I was interested in picking up a Les Paul, but I felt the prices were ridiculous, even for a used one. A used Paul from the Norlin era will still run you $1000, and those are generally considered the least desireable of all the LP's. That's how I ended up with a Hamer, and I'm really happy with it. I feel their quality control is much better than Gibson's. When you get your hands on a good one, it's hard to beat a Les Paul. But with quality control slipping, it's getting harder and harder to do that. I have no problem buying a guitar on Ebay, without playing it first, but I wouldn't even think about doing that with a Gibson. In general, here's how I'd rank them from best to worst...
50's and 60's models, up to 1968
90's models
current models
80's models
Norlin era models (1969 through mid/late 70's)
Ryan
bryvincent
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
my '04 std has 1-piece backledzepp29 said:
T
theodie
Guest
Re: The Scoop On LP's
If you want a great paul style guitar for a gibson price get a GMP pawnshop special. Makes gibsons look and play like childs toys.
If you want a great paul style guitar for a gibson price get a GMP pawnshop special. Makes gibsons look and play like childs toys.
ledzepp29
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
There is a thread over on the les paul forum about this very subject. up until about 01 almost all les pauls were 1 solid slab of mahogany, then gibson started making them with multiple slabs, of course there are exceptions. On the thread at the les paul forum a guy gets overly pissed when he examines his 2 LP premium plus standards which he thought were 1 slab of mahogany and finds that they are 2 slabs glued together. He shows pictures and it is super hard to tell but you see it eventually. I Don't think its that big of a deal but ya know.... and there is a pic in that thread that shows a guy in the gibson factory working on an unfinished paul and it's like 5 or 6 pieces of mahogany glued together, they finish those in solid colors so that you can't see it.bryvincent said:
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: The Scoop On LP's
I think in the very late 80'/early 90's is when Gibson started the Historic division and started realizing that the best LP's they ever made were the 59's, so they modeled all the Standards off those. It's all about the neck profile and headstock and heel tenons.
Most LP fans gravitate toward the 59 profile neck for that reason. I've had a Classic 60 before, and although the neck felt "fast", it just didn't have the LP feel I consider to be the LP feel. I even like the regular 59 profile better than I do the fatter Historic 58 chunky style necks. Those have a great tone, but feel too sluggish in my hands, especially for lead playing. Just my opinion. I also have a pre-Historic 89 Custom 35th Ann. Black Beauty, which is just a bit smaller than a 59 profile, and that neck is like heaven in my hands. The Classic 60s or 60's slim taper Std's feel TOO slinky in my hands. 90's LP's, IMO, are the best. Forget the 50's...you can't afford them.
I think in the very late 80'/early 90's is when Gibson started the Historic division and started realizing that the best LP's they ever made were the 59's, so they modeled all the Standards off those. It's all about the neck profile and headstock and heel tenons.
Most LP fans gravitate toward the 59 profile neck for that reason. I've had a Classic 60 before, and although the neck felt "fast", it just didn't have the LP feel I consider to be the LP feel. I even like the regular 59 profile better than I do the fatter Historic 58 chunky style necks. Those have a great tone, but feel too sluggish in my hands, especially for lead playing. Just my opinion. I also have a pre-Historic 89 Custom 35th Ann. Black Beauty, which is just a bit smaller than a 59 profile, and that neck is like heaven in my hands. The Classic 60s or 60's slim taper Std's feel TOO slinky in my hands. 90's LP's, IMO, are the best. Forget the 50's...you can't afford them.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: The Scoop On LP's
Millenium LP's 99 to 2002, I think, have the Grover metal tuners, which is great for guys who hate Kluson types. 2000/2001 was the prime year for 59 Pauls with chrome Grovers.
Millenium LP's 99 to 2002, I think, have the Grover metal tuners, which is great for guys who hate Kluson types. 2000/2001 was the prime year for 59 Pauls with chrome Grovers.
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: The Scoop On LP's
Ibanez did make bolt-on clones, but they also made set-neck guitars as well.
As the story goes during the early 70's there was more demand for Gibson and Fender guitars than the two companies were sending overseas. One company got ahold of a few classic Gibsons to study them very closely. They then proceeded to clone the bejeezus out of the classic models. The factory that made these guitars were purchased by one of four different companies in Japan; Ibanez, Greco, Burny and Tokai. Ibanez took business stateside and proceeded to get sued back to the Stone Age by Gibson. The others generally sold them domestically.
When Fender did the first run of Made in Japan guitars in the early 80's there were craftsmen that already had a decade plus of experience making those instruments.
It's not a popular thing to say but I'd put my Greco Les Paul Custom clone against the real-deal any day. It's probably got the nicest chunk of ebony on the fretboard I've ever seen, never mind on just a guitar. The construction is impeccable. I did a wax potting of the pickups and was stunned to discover the guitar had a long tenon, a major feature the Gibson guys squabble about when they start getting into nuts and bolts of instrument quality.
Greco's and Burny's can be picked up cheap on the Used market. Since Gibson is now moare attentive to demand overseas alot of folks are upgrading. Folks in Japan are pulling them out of pawn shops and selling them on eBay for serious profit. Aside from the hefty $100 shipping cost of getting it over here it's probably the best unknown bargain out there.
ledzepp29 said:
Ibanez did make bolt-on clones, but they also made set-neck guitars as well.
As the story goes during the early 70's there was more demand for Gibson and Fender guitars than the two companies were sending overseas. One company got ahold of a few classic Gibsons to study them very closely. They then proceeded to clone the bejeezus out of the classic models. The factory that made these guitars were purchased by one of four different companies in Japan; Ibanez, Greco, Burny and Tokai. Ibanez took business stateside and proceeded to get sued back to the Stone Age by Gibson. The others generally sold them domestically.
When Fender did the first run of Made in Japan guitars in the early 80's there were craftsmen that already had a decade plus of experience making those instruments.
It's not a popular thing to say but I'd put my Greco Les Paul Custom clone against the real-deal any day. It's probably got the nicest chunk of ebony on the fretboard I've ever seen, never mind on just a guitar. The construction is impeccable. I did a wax potting of the pickups and was stunned to discover the guitar had a long tenon, a major feature the Gibson guys squabble about when they start getting into nuts and bolts of instrument quality.
Greco's and Burny's can be picked up cheap on the Used market. Since Gibson is now moare attentive to demand overseas alot of folks are upgrading. Folks in Japan are pulling them out of pawn shops and selling them on eBay for serious profit. Aside from the hefty $100 shipping cost of getting it over here it's probably the best unknown bargain out there.
papersoul
New member
Re: The Scoop On LP's
I think the two slabthing is a dead issue. It really makes little difference in how the guitar sounds as I have found. I have heard two slab LPs sound better than one slab! My LP is a 2003 Standard made with one slab mahogany (not two pieces) and I can't find one flaw anywhere - perfect workmanship. Right around 2002, Gibson really started to up their QC and it shows in my opinion. I played a lot of Pauls new and old, and can't put my Standard down. Well worth the money.
As Ryan said....Hamers are great guitars but don't feel right in my hands so I ended up with a Paul and PRS, but that is me. Many guys love Hamers.
I think the two slabthing is a dead issue. It really makes little difference in how the guitar sounds as I have found. I have heard two slab LPs sound better than one slab! My LP is a 2003 Standard made with one slab mahogany (not two pieces) and I can't find one flaw anywhere - perfect workmanship. Right around 2002, Gibson really started to up their QC and it shows in my opinion. I played a lot of Pauls new and old, and can't put my Standard down. Well worth the money.
As Ryan said....Hamers are great guitars but don't feel right in my hands so I ended up with a Paul and PRS, but that is me. Many guys love Hamers.
Thames
Great White Malice
Re: The Scoop On LP's
Yes you're right, and I'm another MIJ freak. I dont want to be annoying with my Edwards, but you guys absolutely need to try one someday. I owned a '78 Greco EG700 a few years ago, sold it 'cause I couldnt par with the skinny 60 slim taper neck profile. The Edwards, with its chunky neck, 1 perfect looking piece of mahogany, and awesome highly flamed mape top, beats it hard and can stand proudly next to any current production USA models.
They are rare, but can be found for under 600$ US at the moment, inc. shipping fees (~115$)... and for what it worth, Mr. Seymour himself gigged with a Edwards LP Custom during is recent trip to Japan (tone clinic I guess?). And they come stock with Duncans... :smokin:
Skarekrough said:
Yes you're right, and I'm another MIJ freak. I dont want to be annoying with my Edwards, but you guys absolutely need to try one someday. I owned a '78 Greco EG700 a few years ago, sold it 'cause I couldnt par with the skinny 60 slim taper neck profile. The Edwards, with its chunky neck, 1 perfect looking piece of mahogany, and awesome highly flamed mape top, beats it hard and can stand proudly next to any current production USA models.
They are rare, but can be found for under 600$ US at the moment, inc. shipping fees (~115$)... and for what it worth, Mr. Seymour himself gigged with a Edwards LP Custom during is recent trip to Japan (tone clinic I guess?). And they come stock with Duncans... :smokin:
