Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

[BriGuy1968]

Hi all,

I have a couple of guitars where my third string intonation is kind of screwy. I'll have it tuned to pitch, and intonated correctly at the 12th fret (along with the 12th fret harmonic) and they'll sound great everywhere on the neck except for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th frets where it goes a bit sharp. I feel like I'm constantly battling the dumb thing and end up trying to tune it just a little flat open in hopes of pulling in those frets a little closer.

:banghead:

Anybody else have this problem or know how to solve it? I've tried filing down the slot in my nut a bit and that did seem to help, but if I go any further I think I'm gonna start getting some fret buzz.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Well, the G is a real pain for intonation.
But you do yourself no favour by simply doing the 12th fret fretted vs open/harmonic method. Better is to use 5th capoed/17th, and better still is to actually play the notes down low and adjust from there.

How is your neck relief too?? If its only those couple of frets that are sharp then maybe there is a dip there.....either in the neck or the fret heights

 

[EDX]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

i trick my tuning and intonation, i use a digital tuner to actually tune well all my strings, but i tune them using the 1st string open as reference, in other words, i tune using all the E's, then i do the intonation on the 12th fret as usual, tune again to all the e's, set the gain at max and fine tune using all the power chords, if the 3 strings power chords with a ton of gain sounds well, then there is it, if one of them happen to give a dissonant chord, even the sightlest, then i play until i find the string that dossonates and fine tune it

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

A plain G is very sensitive to fretting pressure. Just an extra push with jumbo frets can raise the pitch 1/4 step. Check your fretting technique near the nut. The other alternative is to use a wound G. It basically eliminates the issues of a plain G.

 

[koshikas]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

A plain G is very sensitive to fretting pressure. Just an extra push with jumbo frets can raise the pitch 1/4 step. Check your fretting technique near the nut. The other alternative is to use a wound G. It basically eliminates the issues of a plain G.

wouldn't that get in the way of how some pickups (newer) are made to accept a plain G string. just my 2 cents.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Probably....the issue is at the nut. I would take it to a tech and see if the third string slot can be slightly lowered. It takes a fine touch, too low and it will buzz.

Check the nut action. Press down on each string at the third fret and look carefully at where the string crosses the first fret. I've never measured it, but I want it close...ALMOST touching the fret. This has solved about 99.9% of my intonation issues.

You might want to get a copy of luthier Dan Erlewine's excellent book, "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great". Even if you don't do the work yourself, you'll learn a lot about how a guitar should be set up, and it will aid you in communicating with your luthier. Essential reading for all guitarists.

Good luck!

Bill

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

+1 for Dan's set-up books.

Strictly speaking, the problem is the frets. They have been positioned according to a Pythagorean ratio. This is slightly at odds with the physics of how strings vibrate. Solutions range from compensated nuts to stepped/curved frets to the Buzz Feiten system to just bending yo' strings like a Tele master. This schtuff has been covered before at length.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Thanks guys, for all the advice. You've given me a few good ideas to try, and I'll definitely try to find the book by Dan Erlewine... sounds like it would be very useful!

Thanks again!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Plain Gs are very loose strings. The intonation goes out very easily when you fret them. Wound Gs intonate much better.

 

[EDX]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

yeah, today i restrung my guitar, i always check intonation after an string change (and like 45% of the time i end re intonating) and yet tricking with power chords and distortion is still the most precise, also i forgot to mention that with the plain g you must use it's power chord with the d string (the d at air and the g fretted on 2nd fret) and compare with both the d and g at air (it's 3rd???? please some handy guy who knows music theory tell me how to call that?) then tight until the two chords and the 7th fret power chords are all in tune

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

yeah, today i restrung my guitar, i always check intonation after an string change (and like 45% of the time i end re intonating) and yet tricking with power chords and distortion is still the most precise, also i forgot to mention that with the plain g you must use it's power chord with the d string (the d at air and the g fretted on 2nd fret) and compare with both the d and g at air (it's 3rd???? please some handy guy who knows music theory tell me how to call that?) then tight until the two chords and the 7th fret power chords are all in tune

Thanks for the tip! It sounds like a good idea!

An open "G" above "D" would be a 4th above. Fretting the "G" string at 2 (an "A") would be a 5th above. The 3rd above "D" would be "F#" in the key of D Major and it would be "F" in D Minor.


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

 

[Demanic]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Probably....the issue is at the nut. I would take it to a tech and see if the third string slot can be slightly lowered. It takes a fine touch, too low and it will buzz.

Check the nut action. Press down on each string at the third fret and look carefully at where the string crosses the first fret. I've never measured it, but I want it close...ALMOST touching the fret. This has solved about 99.9% of my intonation issues.

You might want to get a copy of luthier Dan Erlewine's excellent book, "How To Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great". Even if you don't do the work yourself, you'll learn a lot about how a guitar should be set up, and it will aid you in communicating with your luthier. Essential reading for all guitarists.

Good luck!

Bill

^^
This exactly. I had the same problem with my Ibby after changing the nut. All the other strings are fine, but I found I had to cut the nut a bit deeper for the G. Otherwise fretting on those ones you mentioned caused it to go sharp.

 

[EDX]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

Thanks for the tip! It sounds like a good idea!

An open "G" above "D" would be a 4th above. Fretting the "G" string at 2 (an "A") would be a 5th above. The 3rd above "D" would be "F#" in the key of D Major and it would be "F" in D Minor.


[emoji450]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [emoji441]

thanks, so in order to round it for guys who read this later, it is easier to correctily intonate the plain g using distortion and it's 4th and 5th chords with the d string against the 5th chord on the 7th fret as reference, turning the intonation screw and g peghead until any dissonance on those chords dissapears.
this way you can intonate the thing in 10 minutes as much

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Third String Intonation Kind of Screwy?

I usually just play a bunch of open and barre chords and fine tune until all of the chords sound right/good enough. I also intonate by checking all the marked frets up and down the neck. The open/12th harmonic/12th fret method just doesn't work well enough for me.