This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

R

rumy22

New member
You've heard the complaint and so I have in relation to amps and other gear. While not all gear is made well, a lot is very capable, if one understands how to use it, especially in relation to his rig. One has to know the strengths and limitations of the gear in relation to the sound he seeks. This takes a willingness to learn and experiment. However, a lot of guys want magic straight out of the box. When they do not find "a good tone," they slam it and overgeneralize it as a bad product.

Good tone is very subjective. Guitarists typically fail to provide context and clear examples of a good tone. My idea of metal, let alone a good metal tone is going be very different than someone playing contemporary metal, as I like 70s and 80s groups like MSG, Zep, Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Vandenburg...

Then we have prejudices. You know them well. The solid state amp hater, the anti-distortion pedalist, the decrier of amp sims, the basher of tube and solid state hybrids. The purist of the tube amp. Then this camp breaks down into which brand, stack vs combo, speaker size, et cetera. I think "good tones" can be found in many places. Each format offers different experiences and possibilities. Also they allow those with lesser budgets access to preferred sounds that would ordinarily be out of reach.

So before you go bashing, share with us the sound you are seeking. How about technically terms, such as Eq references for example; rather than unhelpful terms like "tight" or "fat." Perhaps asking for better articulation is too much? That is why professional reviewers will still have jobs.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

Chewy and woody, haha
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

I agree with you on the bit about people expecting gear to sound good right out of the box... you need time to learn how it works and sounds best and tweak it over time to get the right sounds

People who go through pedals like q-tips trying to find that magic tone in their head will always be let down and constantly buying and selling and I admit I used to be one of those people but now I got my sights on keeping the same pedals and amp and guitar for the next year or 2 and just work on tweaking knobs and getting MY settings...
 
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Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

The more I know about gear the more I realize I have a lot left to learn.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

The tone that most people are trying to get is a *recorded* tone, which is filtered through processing, mic'd up amps, etc.

The same types of people then complain about modelers, which are designed to give a *recorded* tone.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

I 100% agree with your first paragraph dominus (only the first one as I don't know jack about digital modelers), folks are trying to play catch up with recorded tones, which aren't quite attainable without studio tricks (most of the times) and on top of that, most of them do it in their basements at low volume without the other instruments coming into play.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

dominus said:
The tone that most people are trying to get is a *recorded* tone, which is filtered through processing, mic'd up amps, etc.

The same types of people then complain about modelers, which are designed to give a *recorded* tone.
Click to expand...

This right here. Thats why I don't discriminate against any type of gear. I can get good tones out of tube, solidstate, digital, modelers you just have to know how to EQ it right. My main amp for a good while was a Marshall MGFX and people were surprised at how good I got it to sound. Sure it wasn't vintage Marshall tone but it was good none the less.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

the thing ive learned more and more is that if you want a particular sound, use the actual gear.

If you want a strat into a plexi sound, use a strat and a plexi.
If you want a tele and deluxe reverb, use a tele and a deluxe reverb.
If you want the sound of an L5 into a twin reverb then use them.
If you want a univibe sound, use a univibe.
If you want leslie, use a leslie.
If you want analog delays, use an analog delay.
If you want to sound digital and processed, then use that technology for that purpose.

well you get the picture. This stuff is actually really easy.

Good and bad is subjective and really only relevant insofar as whether the gear you are using gives you the sound you are after.
You cant make an oil painting with watercolors and vice versa no matter how good a painter you are. Same goes with music.
 
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Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

I think recordings don't necessarily impart unattainable sound. Anytime I hear Steve Perry on the radio or Van Halen's guitar on W&CF, I think, this sounds weak but probably sounded spectacular in person.

What probably makes most recording tones unattainable is quality of the handmade parts in the Gibson pickups & Marshalls etc. The engineers at the time (60's & 70's) were very specialized but could throw up a good mic sound quickly. Crappy technology crept in during the 80's which wasted studio time & decision making.

Rick Rubin made career of rebooting other careers just replicating the stripped down sound of Back in Black (which btw had condenser mics on the guitars.)
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

rumy22 said:
You've heard the complaint and so I have in relation to amps and other gear. While not all gear is made well, a lot is very capable, if one understands how to use it, especially in relation to his rig. One has to know the strengths and limitations of the gear in relation to the sound he seeks. This takes a willingness to learn and experiment. However, a lot of guys want magic straight out of the box. When they do not find "a good tone," they slam it and overgeneralize it as a bad product.

Good tone is very subjective. Guitarists typically fail to provide context and clear examples of a good tone. My idea of metal, let alone a good metal tone is going be very different than someone playing contemporary metal, as I like 70s and 80s groups like MSG, Zep, Scorpions, Iron Maiden, Vandenburg...

Then we have prejudices. You know them well. The solid state amp hater, the anti-distortion pedalist, the decrier of amp sims, the basher of tube and solid state hybrids. The purist of the tube amp. Then this camp breaks down into which brand, stack vs combo, speaker size, et cetera. I think "good tones" can be found in many places. Each format offers different experiences and possibilities. Also they allow those with lesser budgets access to preferred sounds that would ordinarily be out of reach.

So before you go bashing, share with us the sound you are seeking. How about technically terms, such as Eq references for example; rather than unhelpful terms like "tight" or "fat." Perhaps asking for better articulation is too much? That is why professional reviewers will still have jobs.
Click to expand...

That and try a different cord... Sometimes REALLY helps. Lol
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

gibson175 said:
the thing ive learned more and more is that if you want a particular sound, use the actual gear.

If you want a strat into a plexi sound, use a strat and a plexi.
If you want a tele and deluxe reverb, use a tele and a deluxe reverb.
If you want the sound of an L5 into a twin reverb then use them.
If you want a univibe sound, use a univibe.
If you want leslie, use a leslie.
If you want analog delays, use an analog delay.
If you want to sound digital and processed, then use that technology for that purpose.

well you get the picture. This stuff is actually really easy.

Good and bad is subjective and really only relevant insofar as whether the gear you are using gives you the sound you are after.
You cant make an oil painting with watercolors and vice versa no matter how good a painter you are. Same goes with music.
Click to expand...

All nonsense. Even the line about painting.

 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

I've always had a lot of trouble trying to describe the sound I'm looking for. What makes it more difficult is, it's constantly changing with my mood.
 
Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

I think the hardest thing to do as a musician is to find your sound. It takes a fair amount of time and playing of different equipment to find what clicks and what doesn't. Sometimes when you play a few examples of a particular instrument, you rule it out only to find that finding the right one is a game changer (at least that's the way it was with me and telecasters). There's so much equipment out there these days and there's such a fantastic selection at a wide variety of price points, but it takes some focus to find something that works and really stick with it.

I've been saying this for years and I'll probably be a broken record, but the best thing anyone can do for their "toanz" is to get out there and play stuff. If it sounds good to you, it is good. Screw what it says on the faceplate or the headstock, people need to play equipment in person and draw their own conclusions. If it's a guitar you're looking for, pay the extra money and buy the exact one you love in a guitar shop and stop online shopping.

The OP has a great point about context. Without knowing the background of the people that are online, you really can't draw too much meaning from anything (and I spent way too many years failing to realize that when I was looking for "the next big step").

I'm a fan of alternative/rock/pop music in a lot of different shades. Some artists I really dig include Toad the Wet Sprocket, Oasis, Nada Surf, Duncan Sheik, Johnny Marr, R.E.M. and the Lemonheads. The tones I gravitate to personally is the traditional Fender sound. I like blackface/silverface headroom and slight mid scooped tones. I'm a sucker for a little reverb and I love the clarity that comes with single coils (Gretsch and traditional Fenders do that perfectly), "chunk" from humbuckers doesn't really do anything for me. I used to love channel switching amps until I found that they all lacked a certain something (maybe they just try to do too much?). I play with light gain, so I found a tame fuzz pedal adds just a bit of grit for overdrive and it's a done deal for me.

It took years for me to accept I didn't need a trillion different sounds and that was when I found happiness with my gear and found ways of tweaking it (speakers, cables, tubes, etc.) to make me content to where I'm keeping it.
 
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Re: This sucks, cannot get good sound, tone is flat.... The in-artful complaint

dominus said:
All nonsense. Even the line about painting.

Click to expand...

that's not an oil painting or a watercolour painting either....its art created on a computer screen. :P
Pretty damn clever tho.
 
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