GuitarGuru88
New member
if you have a TOM w/ stopbar bridge....wrap the strings around the stop bar then over the TOM? What does this do to the tenstion and stuff?
To increase sustain can you...
- Thread starter GuitarGuru88
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L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: To increase sustain can you...
Some players (Billy Gibbons for one...) like that, but it does make for less tension and the strings will not be seated as firmly against the TOM saddles. Plus the strings will scratch the top of the tailpiece.
Think about it: if you raise your tailpiece enough it'll eventually lift the strings right off of the saddles! When I adjust a tailpiece I first get the bridge set where I want it and then I lower the tailpiece until the strings start to contact the back edge of the base of the bridge...then a raise the tailpiece just enough that there is a little sliver of light between the underside of the strings and the back edge of the bridge.
Personally, I'd go for a featherweight nickel plated aluminum tailpiece and the method I described above. But that's just my preference. You should try both methods and see what sounds best to you.
Lew
Some players (Billy Gibbons for one...) like that, but it does make for less tension and the strings will not be seated as firmly against the TOM saddles. Plus the strings will scratch the top of the tailpiece.
Think about it: if you raise your tailpiece enough it'll eventually lift the strings right off of the saddles! When I adjust a tailpiece I first get the bridge set where I want it and then I lower the tailpiece until the strings start to contact the back edge of the base of the bridge...then a raise the tailpiece just enough that there is a little sliver of light between the underside of the strings and the back edge of the bridge.
Personally, I'd go for a featherweight nickel plated aluminum tailpiece and the method I described above. But that's just my preference. You should try both methods and see what sounds best to you.
Lew
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big_black
Opaqueologist
Re: To increase sustain can you...
It's a very debatable issue with little proof on either side. I top wrap beacuse I like the feeling. I like the flat feeling of a TOM set up that way. Lew's way is probably the right way (you are supposed to get string break angle equal to the break over the nut), but I find it's easier...I'm lazy.
GuitarGuru88 said:
It's a very debatable issue with little proof on either side. I top wrap beacuse I like the feeling. I like the flat feeling of a TOM set up that way. Lew's way is probably the right way (you are supposed to get string break angle equal to the break over the nut), but I find it's easier...I'm lazy.
Re: To increase sustain can you...
My tech, who has been around a long time and is well-respected, likes the "Junior wrap" around the tail piece (like the LP Jr arrangement). He thinks it increases sustain by increasing the pressure on the stop bar tail piece, and reduces stress on the bridge posts (which can bend over time on the ABR-1 TOM bridge if the break angle is too severe). It makes sense to me, but the most important difference I find is that the wrap over makes the guitar easier to play, allowing me to use a set of .011's rather than .010's, and that in turn changes the tone and sustain in a positive way.
My tech, who has been around a long time and is well-respected, likes the "Junior wrap" around the tail piece (like the LP Jr arrangement). He thinks it increases sustain by increasing the pressure on the stop bar tail piece, and reduces stress on the bridge posts (which can bend over time on the ABR-1 TOM bridge if the break angle is too severe). It makes sense to me, but the most important difference I find is that the wrap over makes the guitar easier to play, allowing me to use a set of .011's rather than .010's, and that in turn changes the tone and sustain in a positive way.
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: To increase sustain can you...
The only real advantage I can think of to wrapping the strings over the top is that you can usually screw the tailpiece adjustment screws all the way down if you do, and that makes that body/tailpiece connection more solid. That's kind of the thinking behind the TonePros stuff and it might improve the bass response a little...
Kelsey said:
The only real advantage I can think of to wrapping the strings over the top is that you can usually screw the tailpiece adjustment screws all the way down if you do, and that makes that body/tailpiece connection more solid. That's kind of the thinking behind the TonePros stuff and it might improve the bass response a little...
Johtosotku
New member
Re: To increase sustain can you...
I do it. It seems to feel a tiny bit different, but, if in a real life comparement scenario, I don't know if I could tell the difference. But I still do it.
I do it. It seems to feel a tiny bit different, but, if in a real life comparement scenario, I don't know if I could tell the difference. But I still do it.
Johtosotku
New member
Re: To increase sustain can you...
That's what I do. I thought that "the more direct the interaction between hardware and body wood, the better", and screwed it as down as is got. I'm not 100% able to tell if it made a difference or not, although it could be quite easily tested. One could just record clips with the tailpiece all the way down and then lift it some, without even changing the strings. That should clear things up a bit. But I still screw it all the way down, perhaps just in case if it helps. Why not?
Lewguitar said:
That's what I do. I thought that "the more direct the interaction between hardware and body wood, the better", and screwed it as down as is got. I'm not 100% able to tell if it made a difference or not, although it could be quite easily tested. One could just record clips with the tailpiece all the way down and then lift it some, without even changing the strings. That should clear things up a bit. But I still screw it all the way down, perhaps just in case if it helps. Why not?
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: To increase sustain can you...
I do lots of things "just in case"! Like using Sprague Orange Drop tone caps even though I don't really hear much/any diff between them and other plastic caps. I use them anyway: just in case! :laugh2: Lew
Johtosotku said:
I do lots of things "just in case"! Like using Sprague Orange Drop tone caps even though I don't really hear much/any diff between them and other plastic caps. I use them anyway: just in case! :laugh2: Lew
Buckeyedog
New member
Re: To increase sustain can you...
I "made" my own tonepros by drilling and tapping for set screws on my tailpiece and bridge! Pretty cool, and way cheaper. Now I think I might try the top wrap just to see. I've only had my LP for a few months so this is my first cleaning/string change/adjustment. When I got it, the tailpiece was down all the way with standard stringing, but the strings were on the back of the bridge. I had to raise it quite a bit to get them off of it. Seemed to sound a little thinner, but hard to tell.
I "made" my own tonepros by drilling and tapping for set screws on my tailpiece and bridge! Pretty cool, and way cheaper. Now I think I might try the top wrap just to see. I've only had my LP for a few months so this is my first cleaning/string change/adjustment. When I got it, the tailpiece was down all the way with standard stringing, but the strings were on the back of the bridge. I had to raise it quite a bit to get them off of it. Seemed to sound a little thinner, but hard to tell.
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: To increase sustain can you...
I've tried it on and off for the past few years. I haven't noticed much of any tonal difference, I haven't noticed a difference in string breakage, but I have had some problems with the low E string popping out of the saddle. I probably have the stop bar adjusted a touch too high...
An interesting point is: what is the designed use of the stop tail piece? As it's the same bar as the LP Jr wraparound (with the exception of the holes tapped for the intonation adjustment), was that originally intended to be wrapped over until someone figured out that you can increase downward pressure on the saddles by routing the strings "backwards?"
I've tried it on and off for the past few years. I haven't noticed much of any tonal difference, I haven't noticed a difference in string breakage, but I have had some problems with the low E string popping out of the saddle. I probably have the stop bar adjusted a touch too high...
An interesting point is: what is the designed use of the stop tail piece? As it's the same bar as the LP Jr wraparound (with the exception of the holes tapped for the intonation adjustment), was that originally intended to be wrapped over until someone figured out that you can increase downward pressure on the saddles by routing the strings "backwards?"
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: To increase sustain can you...
And then, just when you finally thought the discussions was over, some psycho like yours truly comes along and notes that he strings "reverse Junior style", wrapped UNDER the tailpiece :smack:
It´s all good, just a question of what´s best for you
And then, just when you finally thought the discussions was over, some psycho like yours truly comes along and notes that he strings "reverse Junior style", wrapped UNDER the tailpiece :smack:
It´s all good, just a question of what´s best for you
big_black
Opaqueologist
Re: To increase sustain can you...
I've tried that. It gives the strings an even tighter feeling. It puts even more tnesion on the TOM, and if regular stringing bends them over time, this will do it more quickly. I didn't find any benefit to this way. I ended up scratching the heck out of the body. It's my beater so who cares?
Zerberus said:And then, just when you finally thought the discussions was over, some psycho like yours truly comes along and notes that he strings "reverse Junior style", wrapped UNDER the tailpiece :smack:
It´s all good, just a question of what´s best for you
I've tried that. It gives the strings an even tighter feeling. It puts even more tnesion on the TOM, and if regular stringing bends them over time, this will do it more quickly. I didn't find any benefit to this way. I ended up scratching the heck out of the body. It's my beater so who cares?
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: To increase sustain can you...
Exactly: I prefer the tighter feel becase the entire guitar feels more "solid "in my hands, and I feel that it transfers tone best (I still screw the tailpiece downall the way, and I feel that the strings lying on the back adds one more solid contact point to transfer the tone)... I get the sustain from the maximum possible angle at the bridge, a bit of extra "tightness" on bends but also more resiliency at the top of the bend.... for me just much more playable and enjoyable...
Yes, it has the disadvantage that it increases bridge wear... But I´m a luthier, I can live with that when it causes problems in 20 years, installing a new TOM is one of the most basic tasks
But like you said, Just freakin´ string it up! :beerchug:
big_black said:
Exactly: I prefer the tighter feel becase the entire guitar feels more "solid "in my hands, and I feel that it transfers tone best (I still screw the tailpiece downall the way, and I feel that the strings lying on the back adds one more solid contact point to transfer the tone)... I get the sustain from the maximum possible angle at the bridge, a bit of extra "tightness" on bends but also more resiliency at the top of the bend.... for me just much more playable and enjoyable...
Yes, it has the disadvantage that it increases bridge wear... But I´m a luthier, I can live with that when it causes problems in 20 years, installing a new TOM is one of the most basic tasks
But like you said, Just freakin´ string it up! :beerchug: