To mod. or not to mod.

[dpaterson]

Hi.

Some opinions would be appreciated.

I have a Blaze VC-II 25th Anniversary Edition. I've had it for just over a year now and it's probably been played for an hour max. in that period. It's the most fantastically and beautifully crafted instrument. No doubt about that. But it doesn't give me my tone i.e. it's "dark" and I'm led to believe it's a combination of the wood and the pickups (it has a SD Full Shred Trembucker in the bridge and a SH-4 JB in the middle). I've been loathe to do any mods. to this guitar because to me it's a "prized possession". I also figured that if it was kept in perfect condition it may even appreciate in value. But on the other hand: it seems such a waste (especially considering I waited almost thirty years to get my hands on a Kramer Nightswan II). What's more: some thirty years ago I owned two AMERICAN Charvels and a post the other day caused me to look up these two particular guitars and much to my surprise they sure didn't increase in value not even by a little (regardless of condition it would seem). Not sure if it's a fair comparison of course being that the Charvels, albeit that they were USA Charvels, were nevertheless mass produced whereas the Blaze, of course, is not.

I'm toying with the idea of putting SD Invaders in the Blaze.

The alternative is to keep the VC-II "stock standard" and order another to spec.

Thoughts and input anybody???

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Blille]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

First of all, we need pictures

Second, some people are mostly collectors, others mostly players. It’s your choice.

I personally focus on playing and mod like crazy. To keep value I keep the original parts so that I can swap them back if necessary.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Hi.

Behold: the cleanest guitar on the planet (below)!!! LOL!!! Gets taken out about once per month, checked, humidified, polished, photo shoot, and back in the case!!! LOL!!!

While waiting for the build I bought a Jackson and then later another Jackson and those are what I play. When this thing arrived it took my breath away though. But after getting used to the fact that I actually owned this thing I then started to play it and took it to show some people. General consensus is that it's "dark". Nothing wrong with that at all. Just not my tone (there's an entire CRAZY thread going on there that I started on this topic of "my tone": https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?331933-Vivian-Campbell-s-Dio-tone-from-1984-which-pickups).

Dunno. On the one hand I'm in awe of this guitar every single time I see it. On the other hand it does seem like a bit of a waste to not be playing it (humongous, landed, cost aside) . I ordered it and had it made because of its shorter scale length and thin (ultra thin actually) neck. I have small(ish) piano/keyboard player hands (not with those wiry/spidery fingers that my guitar heroes have) so I've always battled especially with the Charvels I had (the one had a neck that felt like a tree trunk in my hands) (at the time anyway). Had the privilege of trying out a Kramer Nightswan II back then but couldn't afford it at the time but never forgot what it felt like and, well, here, after all this time: I have "it". Irony is that I've now learned to get by on my Jacksons so scale length and neck dimensions etc. are no longer an issue.

Hmmmnnn... After taking this pic. this morning and composing the above I think I've answered my own question (until next month that is!!! LOL!!!). But yeh alright: input would still be appreciated.



Regards,

Dale.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

If that were an actual original nightswan I’d be inclined to not mod it...but it isn’t.
Secondly, changing pickups is a very non-invasive mod. It’s easily reversed.
Third....switch those pickups around. That JB belongs in the bridge position not the middle.
Put the full shred in the middle.
I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[dave74]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

And if swapping doesn't do enough for making it brighter, well then you are certainly a ceramics guy and will need to go that route.
I'd probably suggest the tb-6 over the invader if being too dark is a problem with the full shred or the jb at the bridge,,,maybe the pegasus would be enough.?

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

If that were an actual original nightswan I’d be inclined to not mod it...but it isn’t.
Secondly, changing pickups is a very non-invasive mod. It’s easily reversed.
Third....switch those pickups around. That JB belongs in the bridge position not the middle.
Put the full shred in the middle.
I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks a lot. Hmmmnnn... As you say: it's not an original Nightswan. Never thought about it like that. Makes sense and throws a totally different light on the subject. Again: thank you.

And if swapping doesn't do enough for making it brighter, well then you are certainly a ceramics guy and will need to go that route.
I'd probably suggest the tb-6 over the invader if being too dark is a problem with the full shred or the jb at the bridge,,,maybe the pegasus would be enough.?

Never thought about swapping them around.

Before I do that let me say this: when I say it's "dark" I mean it's got loads of bottom and loads of top but not enough mids. (not for my ideal tone anyway i.e. 1983/1984 Vivian Campbell Charvels with Dio LIVE NOT STUDIO i.e. big difference) hence my thinking about the Invaders for this guitar (based purely on their Tone Profile). Never even bothered to look up the JB SH-4 Tone Profile up until now. Thanks!!! I see it's got a totally different Tone Profile from that of the Full Shred (and the Tone Profile for the Full Shred, based on the actual tone I'm getting, is actually "spot on")!!! Interesting.

Given the above re: the tone I'm after do you both still reckon it's worth swapping or just ordering Invaders???

One obvious problem that comes to mind is the fact that the Full Shred is the Trembucker / F-spaced version and the JB SH-4 isn't. Would be/look kinda odd wouldn't it???

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Err... In case anybody thinks I'm double posting because of my other thread that's ongoing: I ain't. This was actually to get some input as to whether or not mod. this particular guitar and not really to get advice or input on the pickups as we've already discussed this. HOWEVER: how come none of YOU suggested swapping the pickups??? LOL!!! Also: that thread's become a bit busy and as a result my own posts are being skipped over it would seem.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Before you spend any money, I’d swap the pickups you already have.
See what changes you like/don’t like. Then we can reassess what you might need if you still aren’t hearing what you’re after.
I honestly think the JB in the bridge will make a big difference.
Just me but I can’t for the life of me figure out why he has it reversed.
To me, it makes much more sense to have the JB in the bridge.

 

[Gtrjunior]

To mod. or not to mod.

As far as the trembucker vs standard spacing...
It’s a 3mm difference. 1.5mm per side.
Noticeable visually to anybody but you?
maybe if you really are looking for it.
Sound wise, I think you’d be hard pressed to hear any significant difference.

 

[Jacew]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Thanks a lot. Hmmmnnn... As you say: it's not an original Nightswan. Never thought about it like that. Makes sense and throws a totally different light on the subject. Again: thank you.


Never thought about swapping them around.

Before I do that let me say this: when I say it's "dark" I mean it's got loads of bottom and loads of top but not enough mids. (not for my ideal tone anyway i.e. 1983/1984 Vivian Campbell Charvels with Dio LIVE NOT STUDIO i.e. big difference) hence my thinking about the Invaders for this guitar (based purely on their Tone Profile). Never even bothered to look up the JB SH-4 Tone Profile up until now. Thanks!!! I see it's got a totally different Tone Profile from that of the Full Shred (and the Tone Profile for the Full Shred, based on the actual tone I'm getting, is actually "spot on")!!! Interesting.

Given the above re: the tone I'm after do you both still reckon it's worth swapping or just ordering Invaders???

One obvious problem that comes to mind is the fact that the Full Shred is the Trembucker / F-spaced version and the JB SH-4 isn't. Would be/look kinda odd wouldn't it???

Regards,

Dale.

P.S.

Err... In case anybody thinks I'm double posting because of my other thread that's ongoing: I ain't. This was actually to get some input as to whether or not mod. this particular guitar and not really to get advice or input on the pickups as we've already discussed this. HOWEVER: how come none of YOU suggested swapping the pickups??? LOL!!! Also: that thread's become a bit busy and as a result my own posts are being skipped over it would seem.

Sorry if you feel your posts are skipped over. Keeping posts more to the point and less crowded and lenghty helps with that

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Hi.

Thanks for the fantastic input.

I reckon it's worth a try.

Worst case scenario: I could order a JB Trembucker TB-4 and put the original JB SH-4 back in the middle position (that is if I can't live with knowing there's a size difference and that it's not 100% "right"). But at least I'll know what difference a JB makes and sounds like before ordering.

Truth be told: I NEVER use middle or neck pickups i.e. they're there to cover the holes is all. Next guitar: ONE pickup (bridge), NO switch, MAYBE a volume control!!! LOL!!!

Now to pluck up the courage to go near it with a screwdriver and soldering iron ... LOL!!! (Don't have an issue with my Jacksons).

Thanks again.

Dale.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Sorry if you feel your posts are skipped over. Keeping posts more to the point and less crowded and lenghty helps with that

Hello. Yeh. I know that's the problem!!! LOL!!! But hey: there's a lot of good stuff there!!!

Anyways: you'll note these are a lot shorter and to the point.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[devastone]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

If it is dark, I wouldn't put an Invader in it, they are dark pickups IMHO. Swapping the pups is a good idea, the JB will have more upper mid "cut" than the Full Shred, and it has a little more output too IIRC. Half or more of the guys in the 80s used JBs. Would definitely start there. And, I wouldn't worry about the spacing, play it for a few minutes and you'll probably forget about it :kabong:

 

[Mincer]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

The Full Shred is a bright pickup. Anything else is gonna be dark. Maybe it is the wood? I am all for modding if it makes the instrument playable. Otherwise, sell it so it actually gets played. I am not into collecting. A Custom 5 might work, too, as it sucks out all of the mids.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Good morning.

As always: thanks for the input.

I'm getting a bit confused though. To reiterate: when I say the tone is "dark" I mean it has bottom (bass) and tops (treble) but (to me) lacks midrange. If you asked me to "draw" the tone I get from the guitar itself I'd "draw" something like this:



Now that's very different from the actual Tone Profiles of the Full Shred and the JB i.e. both of these pickups have less bottom (bass), a little more midrange, and more tops (treble). This doesn't "agree" with my "drawing" of the actual tone I get from the guitar itself as above but I'm figuring that the increased bass response is probably coming from the wood (body) itself.

What I'm saying is that surely I should be looking at something that sort of "counteracts" the bottom (bass) and the tops (treble) and boosts the midrange??? And if this is the case: the Tone Profile of the Invaders sure seems to fit not???

I guess why I'm getting confused is the use of the words "bright" and the term "upper mid cut" in your posts above. To my mind and ears: the last things I need are more brightness and less midrange which, just based on the Tone Profiles for the Full Shred and JB, is exactly what I'm getting with these pickups.

Comments???

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

If you like a Warren DiMartini type tone...that’s a JB. I don’t hear too much treble there. To me, a JB SCREAMS 80’s metal.

You’re hearing it’s tone profile differently because it’s in the middle position. You’ll always hear more low end the further away from the bridge you go.


And it’s widely known here that the tone profiles are far from ”spot on”.

But here’s the thing:

Clearly you want to spend your money on an Invader....just go ahead and do it then. You won’t be happy until you do.

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Clearly you want to spend your money on an Invader....just go ahead and do it then. You won’t be happy until you do.

And clearly you know me well even after this short time!!! LOL!!!

Yeh. You're right. The main purpose of this thread though was to get input as to whether to mod. this particular guitar or not. That's been adequately addressed i.e. may as well.

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

And clearly you know me well even after this short time!!! LOL!!!

Yeh. You're right. The main purpose of this thread though was to get input as to whether to mod. this particular guitar or not. That's been adequately addressed i.e. may as well.

Regards,

Dale.

Agreed....you’ve got nothing to lose and everything to gain!

 

[dpaterson]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

Alright well you've now made my mind up!!! Thanks for that!!!

One LAST question on this (edit: sorry but threw in one or two more):

Given that the Invaders are not F-spaced should they be aligned in the guitar such that the LOWER E string is "dead centre" on the respective pole piece (and as you move further up the strings they'll go out of alignment with the pole pieces) or what???

What's interesting on this guitar (actually peed me off to an extent): because the middle pickup is right next to the bridge pickup (obviously) the middle pickup could/should ALSO be F-spaced strictly speaking as the strings don't fall directly over each pole piece on the middle pickup as described above.

I know it's probably not going to make a difference with Invaders but I'd feel more comfortable doing it "right" (especially on this guitar).

Do you have any experience with SD actually MAKING pickups??? I mean: would they look at making a set of F-spaced Invaders (one bridge and one middle) do you think???

Regards,

Dale.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

How do you not end to “align” one pole piece?
The construction is what it is...
If you mean you want to bend the pickups legs to put the pickup a millimeter over...bad idea.
You’re waaaaaay overthinking this.
Just install the pickup and enjoy.

 

[Demanic]

Re: To mod. or not to mod.

As far as I know, the Custom shop will make just about anything to order, but you will pay quite a bit more for it. Everything that I have ever heard about the Invader has been that it doesn't need to be F-spaced, the fat pole pieces cause the magnetic field to have plenty of string coverage regardless.

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