To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

rraawwrr

New member
Per request, I am posting on the results of the re-wiring of my Strat, which some of you may be aware of.

The guitar is a Fender 50th Anniversary American Deluxe with Fender/Lawrence SCN's and the infamous S-1 switch. Some of you with the same system may love the S-1 for its versatility. However, Strangegrey and I, among many others, express deep concern about the sound quality of the pickups.

SCN's were toted as a huge breakthrough in noiseless technology, but it seemed that they seriously lacked mojo. Yes, they were silent, but lifeless. Speculation arose that it was the fault of the S-1 system, not the pickups. I have removed the S-1 switch and here are my results.

With the s-1 system, you get twice as many pickup selecting options. Cool beans if you like those sounds and like pressing that obnoxious little button. Before the mod it seemed that the pickups were causing the proverbial "carpet-over-the-speakers" effect. If you like the way the SCN's sound now, that's good. As much as I liked them, their true character is muted by the S-1.

The mod simply removes the S-1 from the circuit. Replace the volume pot with a normal 250k and a normal 5 way will do. Luckily I benefitted from Artie's help greatly, as he volunteered to work on my pickguard free of charge. What a great guy he is, but that's for another post another time:smokin:

Anyway, the SCN's are the best sounding noiseless pickups I've ever played (Barring the new Stack Pluses). I've played strats loaded with kinman's and although some rave about them, the Kinmans didn't float my boat. These however, seem to come very very close to a good strat tone. *I did not say vintage tone - these will NOT turn your tone into Eric Johnson's, no matter how much you or I would like that (of course we would want that!)*

Cleans these babies sparkle and chime. Bass is tight, the midrange is a little more prominant than a standard single coil, and the highs are nice and airy. Notch positions give nice spank and quack. Each position has a unique but very balanced sound. Under high gain (we're talking Rectifier gain, on the Modern mode gain :headbang: ) these things are simply amazing. Most strat pups I've played through such high gain get fizzy and muddled, on top of wicked 60 cycle hum. Great if you're Yngwie, but not for me. These things are extremely clear and silent under gain. Single note solos on the neck position sing and are not lacking brightness. Flip to the bridge and wail away without fear of ice picking - about 11k for the bridge keeps it FAT and loud!

I will be posting clips eventually (some time this weekend) and if you have any questions feel free to PM me or post or whatever!


Eric
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

Hey folks,

I've just scrubbed up and I'm starting the same surgical procedure...The other night, I removed the S1 switch, hand picked a few CTS pots...and I'm going to wire my SCN's eric johnson style...

Wish me luck...
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

No luck needed...worked like a charm and I was up and running in less than an hour.

Eric was right...the improvement from yanking the s1 switch is downright scary!!! More clarity, ALOT more spank and liveliness....plus with the eric johnson wiring, I find I have more tonal control over my notch sounds...
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

I've been waiting to hear the results of this project. My gut kept telling me the S-1 was the culprit all along, and it was right. In the all the years I've been playing not once have I played a bad Bill Lawrence pickup (the real Bill that is). I'm glad to be reading that they meet and even exceed the expectations.

Perhaps those who have done what these two have done with the S-1 can let Fender know about it. Just tell them the S-1 is no good and this is why.
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

I have an American Deluxe V-neck Strat, and I really like the way it sounds, but the notch positions aren't as nice as they are with vintage-style pickups. That's not a big deal for me, as I'm mostly on the neck or bridge. The only S1-down tone that I like consistently is at the 5-way B/M position -- sounds something like a Tele in the middle/combined 2-pup position. It's good to know that you can remove the S1 and derive some benefits. Do you have to change the stock 5-way switch and/or the neck and no-load tone pots, or just the volume pot?
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

So is it the switch itself that causes the problems? Could you put in a push-pull instead and still have all the switching options, or would that kill tone too?
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

Kelsey, what I did was I yanked the whole s1 assembly, the switch and the tone pots....and replaced it with a regular 5-way blade and 3 250k CTS pots I had here...I also used a .01uf Orange Drop cap I had around here...

The s1 switching assembly will make good ebay fodder...

ratherdashing, If I were commenting from my experiences, I would say that the s1 switch is a contributor to some of the muddy characteristics of the guitar....and for me, it made a world of difference.

I can't say that with much certainty, as I am one guy who made one mod. If I saw a whole bunch of these guitars go through a similar mod, I would say that you're in luck...


Also, something else to consider. I have an american deluxe tele and I have no interest in tearing out the s1 of that guitar...I think the guitar sounds fine.
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

One of the things that I wish I'd thought of when I had rraawwrr's pickguard, was to use the S-1 switch to select between two caps for the tone control. It would have been great for that. Just a thought. ;)

Artie
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

You know, I know it's probably just a PCB based switch...but I dunno, the guitar *sounds* clearer...without that damn switch.
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

Looking at the drawings at the Fender site, there is a 0.05uF cap mounted between terminals #10 & #12 on the S-1 Switch/Pot that is probably sucking the tone out of the pickups. Terminal #10 is also connected to Terminals #4 & #3 so that cap could be doing some major tonal damage! It looks like the S-1 has 4 seperate switches, each with 3 terminals, but I don't know which terminals are C, NO and NC (maybe Artie figured that out).

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/index.php

This would not be the first time that Fender's wiring has screwed up the sound of their guitars: the TBX was a great idea but the stock wiring will load down passive pickups with a 82k resistor to ground. Ditch the 82k resistor and add a 220k resistor between the two sections and you end up with a really slick tone control: from 0 to the center detent it is exactly like a 250k tone control. And from the center detent up to 10 it is like a progressive no-load pot (with a ~1.22M load to ground through the tone cap):

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/_gtr/tbx_mod.pdf

In any case, it is good to hear that the SCN's are a decent sounding noiseless pickup; it doesn't look like they are available as a replacement pickup yet. :(

BTW I've been rewiring my strats with "trick" switches from Deaf Eddie, like the Chromacaster and the Fat-O-Caster V 3.0. Basically you wire in the switch in place of the middle tone control and when set to 10 you have your 5 stock linkages. As you turn the control down to 9, 8, 7 and, on the Chromacaster, 6 & 5, you get alternate linkages on some of the positions of the selector switch. So your guitar looks completely stock, but as you dial down what used to be the middle tone control you get different tone "pallets" (like an artist's pallet- shades of Vincent Van Gough!). Deaf Eddie offers linkages I never even dreamt about, like the neck and bridge in series out of phase. One thing nice about that linkage is that it is humcancelling. And being series it isn't a wimpy whiny out-of-phase sound, but is reminiscent of Albert King.

The switches are prewired with very clear illustrated directions and are easy to install. I had my doubts that a rotary switch would work well in a strat, but Deaf Eddie includes a large external star lock washer to hold it in place securely. The shaft is the perfect length for your tone knob and with shipping it will set you back about $32. If you don't like the added 5 to 11 linkages, you can always leave it set to 10.

http://www.deaf-eddie.net/

Yeah I know it sounds like an infomercial but I am really impressed with what Deaf Eddie (AKA Emmet Brown) has come up with here. (BTW there are a lot of wiring diagrams on his site that you can download for free.) [While this might seem like a total thread hijack, the whole point of the S-1 switching system is alternate linkages, which is exactly what the Chromacaster and Fat-O-Caster switches do, and without screwing up the tone of your pickups.]
 
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Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

BlueGuitar said:
. . . each with 3 terminals, but I don't know which terminals are C, NO and NC (maybe Artie figured that out)

The center terminal of each group was the "common", but I can't remember whether it was the CW or CCW terminal that was NO or NC. ;)
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

Frank, I'm glad everything worked out for you! It really does give the guitar a whole new sound! How sweet is the neck pickup under gain? :dance: :banana: :smokin:

Artie, the cap switching idea is pretty neat. If you want the S-1 system back to tinker with, I would be happy to send it down to you. It's the least I can do :bowdown:


Eric
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

That would be cool. Then, at least I'd know for sure how the thing works when I draw up other diagrams. ;)
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

By the way....just as an FYI, a few other things that had been done to the guitar (while I had her open):

1) Shielded entire pickup cavity with copper tape as the shielding paint fender uses sucks (actually, this was done about a year ago)....

2) removed all redundant grounds, as per the advice given at guitarnuts.com

3) converted grounds to star ground configuration, as per guitarnuts.com


Now, I'd be crazy to tell you I can tell a difference between the guitar now and the guitar prior...since the SCN's are as about as quiet as any guitar pickup out there....but in my experience, you never know when you walk into a bar where the wiring is all screwy and the place is airborne noise central...
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

ErikH said:
........ In the all the years I've been playing not once have I played a bad Bill Lawrence pickup (the real Bill that is). I'm glad to be reading that they meet and even exceed the expectations.........

.
+1
 
Re: To those with the Fender S-1 + SCN's

Sorry to reply to an old post. Has anyone changed one or both of the capacitors in the S-1's to improve the sound? Thanks
 
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