Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

[Mayhem]

Important fact: I used to have the covers on there without any solder. This is how the guitar was I bought it. I did not notice much difference between cover and no cover on the bridge humbucker when I tested. If at all a slight less high freq, but that was all good by me.


The humbuckers where feeding like hell on rehearsals however eating all the sustain(that I did not really need anyway..haha), and me allways reaching for the slight better, decided to solder the covers on to the baseplate like they are when going out of the factory. This seem to be normal advice. This did not seem to help. It is still feeding like hell, maybe a little different. It's a late 70's Les Paul. Seems like the buckers isn't grounded actually. A web-search told me that this is normal for some LP's from this time. There is a hole going towards the tailpiece on the cavity, but no cable.

The main problem however, is that after soldering the humbuckers on to the baseplate, they sound different. At least the bridge humbucker. A little dark, more closed, nasal, almost like if I had rolled down the tonepot...

Is the cover more part of the humbucker now that it is connected/grounded with solder to the baseplate? Could this be the reason? Lowering the bridge humbucker seems to help a bit, but I'm not sure..

It's a T-Top dirty fingers by the way. In neck I got a normal T-top. Neck seem to sound the same. I do not use that one that much, so it's hard to tell. The neck humbucker had traces of having had the cover soldered on earlier.

 

[bancika]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

soldering the cover will effectively create a low pass filter and cut some highs. You're creating a small capacitor between the coil and the cover which forms the low pass filter. How much treble it cuts depends on cover composition.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Ok, so solder gives more effect than having the cover just touching the baseplate then?

I once tested the cover with a magnet, and it did not get any magnetic effect. It was a really strong magnet, not the kind you got on your fridge. Should be the normal and original Gibson covers in gold I guess... They do look as old as the guitar at least (not abused, but been through quite a lot of playing).

 

[bancika]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

If it's making a good electrical connection with the baseplate without the solder than it should sound the same as if it was soldered. As long as the cover is not grounded it should not affect the sound because it's like a capacitor that's not grounded.
Also, it doesn't matter if it's magnetic. Aluminum cover would affect the tone too. It's about conductivity, not EM properties.
Cheesr

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Brass covers kill more high end than nickel does, don't know why, but they do. Most legit pickup manufacturers uses nickel covers.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

both the cover of my mini hb and seth are touching shielding on the backside of pickguard, which is grounded.

They're both obscenely bright, and I have no complaints. I do wonder how the bridge seth would look as double creme/zebra/blacks.....

 

[bancika]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

It's a good exercise for someone with a decent DMM that measures capacitance. Putting on a bunch of covers on a pickup and measuring capacitance between hot lead and baseplate (gnd) should tell which is the most transparent cover.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

haha, maybe that could end the discussion about covers chaning sound or not. Before posting here, I did some searches, and opinions seem to be divided.

I believe the covers are nickle. At least they look like that where the gold has worn off, and more or less like the other guitar I have with (I believe) unmolested T-tops.

I will see. I think I might try removing the solder, and mask the baseplate with some tape, if some more tweaking does not help. Oh, the vainity, need to have those covers on!

I hope I did not screw anything up. Those 70's buckers are hard to come by in my country, and damn expensive on eBay.

Quencho learn from my mistakes! If it works don't brake it!!

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Ok, so I finally got the time and guts to remove the covers. Having scraped off all the excess lead from the solder and so on, I wonder if I should put some maskingtape inside there no make sure there will be no electrical conectivity.

This could result in a better connection though... but if it isn't leading electricity, it would not matter would it? Could make the cover more stable and give less feedback even..

Anybody know? Hmmm.. I will give it some thought while warming up the iron for my broken distortionpedal.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Could it be something as simple as not having the height set properly? Maybe the treble side was too far down when you replaced the pickup? It may not have anything to do with the new covers. It may just be a setup issue.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Trying different levels did not really help that much, and I do not think the height changed when I did the soldering. I did not move the screws that adjust height..

I'm putting them on with a little piece of tape where there looks to be a small conection. Let's see what happens.. fingers crossed!

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

This is where open coil pickups came from. People took the covers off of humbuckers in order to brighten them up. Eventually, companies just started making them that way.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Yeah, and now it seems to be the norm. On the Paula, I prefer the looks of covers though.

I think the sound is less muddy and more open now. A few rehearsals will help me to tell. The change last time was enough to make it really messy together with drums and bass.

 

[jmh151]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

I put Duncan Nickle pickup cover on my PRS. When I met Paul Reed Smith himself he said pickup covers help to create a more vintage tone. My pickups were a little too bright for my tastes, the covers, when put on properly and soldered to the baseplate, tames the highs a little and gave it a rounder tone

 

[skynyrd]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Your feedback issues are due to improper potting with the cover, if you take the cover back off and put a very thin layer of clear silicone on the top of the bobbins then put the cover back on and squeeze down tightly then resolder the feedback will be gone.

 

[Mayhem]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Not a bad tip. I have been using a strip of maskingtape since wax seemed a hassle, and that did help a bit I think. However, things seem to be okay now, even a bit less feeding, so I do not think I will dare try to attach with solder one more time.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Yeah, and now it seems to be the norm. On the Paula, I prefer the looks of covers though.

I think the sound is less muddy and more open now. A few rehearsals will help me to tell. The change last time was enough to make it really messy together with drums and bass.

Try open trim rings, maybe? Not as bare looking as open coils. You can get nice ones from Mojotone.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

Is this a high-quality cover? If it's a cheap piece of crap it can be magnetic and that will of course kill some sound.

Physically what happens is that you have eddie currents in the cover (as in any conductor that is placed in the oscillating magnetic field). The eddie currents dampen the amplitude (not frequency) of your resonance peak. This should sound roughly like using a low value pot. The cover does not create a new filter on it's own (obviously, it isn't in the electrical circuit), but it modifies the second order low pass filter that your pickup is.

You could also have damaged some wires when pulling it on.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

I too have noticed this phenomenon. I had an a4 59N and tried it all three ways without changing the pickup height (no cover, cover not soldered, cover soldered). I couldn't hear much difference between the cover off and the cover on but not soldered, but the cover soldered on smoothed out the attack and took out some treble. When I unsoldered the cover and took it off I heard a big difference.

Tried this with a JB too. I like it with the cover soldered on.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Tone changed after soldering on covers on humbucker(s)?!

I too have noticed this phenomenon. I had an a4 59N and tried it all three ways without changing the pickup height (no cover, cover not soldered, cover soldered). I couldn't hear much difference between the cover off and the cover on but not soldered, but the cover soldered on smoothed out the attack and took out some treble. When I unsoldered the cover and took it off I heard a big difference.

Tried this with a JB too. I like it with the cover soldered on.

What happens if you put the cover back on, loose?