Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

P

preacherofrock

New member
I don't utilize 2 volume controls on a guitar, but would Ike to have a way to take a little mud off of my neck pickup from my les Paul style. Is there any way to wife a les Paul for one volume, two tones, and a bass contour that affect only the neck pickup?

I've been searching everywhere for the answer to my question and can only come up with a strat scheme, but I am not proficient enough to make it correlate for my Paul.

Please help, and pictures would be extremely helpful.

Thanks
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

You can do the spin-a-split mod where you replace your tone control with something that will ground out one of the coils of the humbucker based on how much you turn the pot. That lets you take it all the way from dark sounding HB to bright sounding single coil.
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/choosing-installing/tech-tips/spinasplit/
sum96tip.jpg
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

Excellent point. Yes, you need a tone control to reduce treble on the bridge PU, but what you really need on the neck is a tone control to reduce bass. This is so obvious, why aren't manufacturers doing it? Where can we get, or how do wire, pots to reduce low end instead of high end? Maybe a certain kind of cap?
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

blueman335 said:
Excellent point. Yes, you need a tone control to reduce treble on the bridge PU, but what you really need on the neck is a tone control to reduce bass. This is so obvious, why aren't manufacturers doing it? Where can we get, or how do wire, pots to reduce low end instead of high end? Maybe a certain kind of cap?
Click to expand...
There are passive units available such as the Varitone switch, Artec QDD, Fender TBX, Lawrence Q-filter, Torres mid-cut control and Ceriatone switch. The Fender TBX is the most common and least versatile. The Q-filter, Varitone and Torres use the same principle, but with slightly different components. Even Artie's de-mud mod does the same thing, but it is not a variable choke.

A bass cut control is simple to build, but the amount of cut and the frequency spread isn't very wide. I have experimented with them and in order to get a truly effective bass cut you also need a mid shift/cut circuit to go with it. The combination of the two produces a wide enough frequency spread and a deep enough cut to be usable. Probably the best way to achieve both on the same circuit is by using a stacked single shaft pot. That way both mid/bass will be cut when turning the pot. However an active treble boost is far more effective than a passive mid/bass cut device. If you want increased treble response the best bet is an active treble boost circuit.

Passive Bass Cut - Very simple and straightforward, but very subtle.

Passive Mid Shift/Cut - More complicated, but still very subtle.

Modified Mid/Bass Cut - This guy has modified both for his schematic. Using a separate control for each is overkill, because you really don't need to tweak each separately.
 
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Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

idsnowdog said:
There are passive units available such as the Varitone switch, Artec QDD, Fender TBX, Lawrence Q-filter, Torres mid-cut control and Ceriatone switch. The Fender TBX is the most common and least versatile. The Q-filter, Varitone and Torres use the same principle, but with slightly different components. Even Artie's de-mud mod does the same thing, but it is not a variable choke.

A bass cut control is simple to build, but the amount of cut and the frequency spread isn't very wide. I have experimented with them and in order to get a truly effective bass cut you also need a mid shift/cut circuit to go with it. The combination of the two produces a wide enough frequency spread and a deep enough cut to be usable. Probably the best way to achieve both on the same circuit is by using a stacked single shaft pot. That way both mid/bass will be cut when turning the pot. However an active treble boost is far more effective than a passive mid/bass cut device. If you want increased treble response the best bet is an active treble boost circuit.

Passive Bass Cut - Very simple and straightforward, but very subtle.

Passive Mid Shift/Cut - More complicated, but still very subtle.

Modified Mid/Bass Cut - This guy has modified both for his schematic. Using a separate control for each is overkill, because you really don't need to tweak each separately.
Click to expand...

that passive bass cut is exactly what i'm looking for, but what i am not smart enough to figure out it how to insert it into the rest of the circuit. I'm thinking I want to go from neck pickup to neck tone control to bass cut to switch to volume to output, and if that's right, i'll feel like a genius. But it can't be that simple, can it?
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

preacherofrock said:
that passive bass cut is exactly what i'm looking for, but what i am not smart enough to figure out it how to insert it into the rest of the circuit. I'm thinking I want to go from neck pickup to neck tone control to bass cut to switch to volume to output, and if that's right, i'll feel like a genius. But it can't be that simple, can it?
Click to expand...
IMO you can achieve a lot better results by changing the magnet, turning the pickup 180 degrees, parallel wiring or by changing the polepieces.

Be aware that it isn't going to be a real big difference. In order to effectively cut/boost any frequencies you are going to need an active circuit. Also the frequencies you may want to shift/cut may be in the midrange, rather than the bass. These passive tone controls are salt & pepper, not a different type of meat.

All you really need is a 1meg pot or a 500K pot, a couple of resistors and a few capacitors for the bass-cut. The new control is pretty much wired like any other tone control. The major difference is in the details, like which terminals to use on the pot.

You should spend some time with a parametric EQ or a graphic EQ to figure out what frequencies you want to cut first. Once you narrow down what frequencies you want to cut write them down and use the formulas on the TDPRI midrange control page. This will allow you to make educated decisions on what component values to use. Otherwise just wiring up these circuits is firing blindly into the night and you will be disappointed!

My experience with these circuits showed me that a lot of what I considered to be bass frequencies were actually low midrange. The bass-cut controls were cutting frequencies below what I wanted to cut, so I hardly heard the difference. When I combined the mid shift/cut with the bass-cut I finally started to notice a difference. However I did not use the formulas, instead I just randomly substituted whatever components I had on hand. So I was shooting blind and my results were disappointing.
 
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Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

unfortunately i don't have any sort of parametric eq at my disposal, but i really think this bass cut is what i would want, i just want to learn how to wire it correctly. I understand it will be a subtle effect, which is part of the reason i want it.
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

preacherofrock said:
unfortunately i don't have any sort of parametric eq at my disposal, but i really think this bass cut is what i would want, i just want to learn how to wire it correctly. I understand it will be a subtle effect, which is part of the reason i want it.
Click to expand...
If that's the case then you could modify one of your tone controls to make it a bass-cut. Buy a number of the different capacitors/resistors that are mentioned and wire alligator clips between the two terminals where the resistors/capacitors go. This will allow you to try a number of different combos so you can tune the effect. If it does what you want then wire it permanently. If it does what you want with a 500K pot the 1meg pot will give you a wider range.
 
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Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

idsnowdog said:
There are passive units available such as the Varitone switch, Artec QDD, Fender TBX, Lawrence Q-filter, Torres mid-cut control and Ceriatone switch. The Fender TBX is the most common and least versatile. The Q-filter, Varitone and Torres use the same principle, but with slightly different components. Even Artie's de-mud mod does the same thing, but it is not a variable choke.

A bass cut control is simple to build, but the amount of cut and the frequency spread isn't very wide. I have experimented with them and in order to get a truly effective bass cut you also need a mid shift/cut circuit to go with it. The combination of the two produces a wide enough frequency spread and a deep enough cut to be usable. Probably the best way to achieve both on the same circuit is by using a stacked single shaft pot. That way both mid/bass will be cut when turning the pot. However an active treble boost is far more effective than a passive mid/bass cut device. If you want increased treble response the best bet is an active treble boost circuit.

Passive Bass Cut - Very simple and straightforward, but very subtle.

Passive Mid Shift/Cut - More complicated, but still very subtle.

Modified Mid/Bass Cut - This guy has modified both for his schematic. Using a separate control for each is overkill, because you really don't need to tweak each separately.
Click to expand...

So is the does the cap value being larger = larger amount of bass cut?

... like a traditional treble cut tone control?

... or is it the smaller the cap value = more bass gets cut?
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

icantbuyafender said:
So is the does the cap value being larger = larger amount of bass cut?

... like a traditional treble cut tone control?

... or is it the smaller the cap value = more bass gets cut?
Click to expand...
The capacitor controls frequencies more than amount of cut.
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

When a capacitor is used for a high pass/low cut filter, it is the latter: smaller cap - more bass cut. Make the cap really small, and it will start cutting into the midrange as well.
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

Koreth said:
When a capacitor is used for a high pass/low cut filter, it is the latter: smaller cap - more bass cut. Make the cap really small, and it will start cutting into the midrange as well.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU.

How would one go about adding a third pot to a schematic?

like, 1vol, 1 treblecut, 1 basscut?

Wait.. i guess a TBX does that...
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

I played a HH Jag extensively and I thought it's bass cut switch chopped just the right amount of mud. The effect may not be as strong when using a pot instead of a switch, but it's worth a try. The Jag uses a .003uf cap - I would start with that and a 1meg pot and see where it takes you. You could also keep the neck tone control as a high cut and put the low-cut on a push-pull switch.

preacherofrock said:
unfortunately i don't have any sort of parametric eq at my disposal, but i really think this bass cut is what i would want, i just want to learn how to wire it correctly. I understand it will be a subtle effect, which is part of the reason i want it.
Click to expand...

You would take the neck pickup lead that normally connects to it's volume pot and run it to the tone pot. On the tone pot, you want to use the middle lug and the outside lug that's unused on a normal tone control. Route the neck pickup to one of them, wire the cap between them, and run a wire from the other one to the neck pickup's normal spot on the volume pot.

The result is that the signal has to run through the cap, which chops lower frequencies, with the pot being a variable bypass around it. Even at the pot's maximum resistance it may allow some bypass - that's why a higher value may work better.
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

ParameterMan said:
I played a HH Jag extensively and I thought it's bass cut switch chopped just the right amount of mud. The effect may not be as strong when using a pot instead of a switch, but it's worth a try. The Jag uses a .003uf cap - I would start with that and a 1meg pot and see where it takes you. You could also keep the neck tone control as a high cut and put the low-cut on a push-pull switch.



You would take the neck pickup lead that normally connects to it's volume pot and run it to the tone pot. On the tone pot, you want to use the middle lug and the outside lug that's unused on a normal tone control. Route the neck pickup to one of them, wire the cap between them, and run a wire from the other one to the neck pickup's normal spot on the volume pot.

The result is that the signal has to run through the cap, which chops lower frequencies, with the pot being a variable bypass around it. Even at the pot's maximum resistance it may allow some bypass - that's why a higher value may work better.
Click to expand...

This is, I think what i'm looking for...so to wire in the treble control and volume in this somewhere as well, i could go from the pickup and wire in the treble control as normal, then wire in the bass cut pot like this, then on to the switch, master volume, output. Correct?
 
Re: Tone control and bass cut on neck of les paul

Correct, although the position of the treble cut control doesn't really matter - it lives between hot and ground and just has to tie into the neck pickup's hot wire somewhere before the switch.
 
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